Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

circa.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 225 posts

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#191

Post by qb45 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #179
captainmuon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start a revolution. I'm only half joking. I think we can't solve these problems within the current political and economical and system. We have to found a new radical political movement. A lot of the problems we face: the crisis of representational democracy, populism, unemployment, xenophobia, the surveillance state, terrorism, ... cannot be solved individually, but I believe must be fixed simultaneously. We got to…

As someone who has dipped into the libertarian infinity pool of crazy, and flopped right over the side into the freefall insanity of pragmatic anarchism, I am aware that most lasting societal changes have only been accomplished by creating rivers of blood--the Reign of Terror, the Soviet Revolution, the Holocaust, the Killing Fields, etc. And I am also aware that the new boss is usually either the same as the old bos…

> In short, black-bag some elites, and shoot them up with a witches brew of MDMA, LSD, DXM, Datura, nicotine, cannabis, salvinorin-A, high fructose corn syrup, fluoride, chemtrail distillate, et cetera (Poe's Law disclosure: the latter three were satire), and see if that can cure them of being selfish assholes.

No, it'll give them a bad trip and they will hang you by your own guts. This (and more) had already been tried fifty years ago, read about project MKULtra and the book "Acid Dreams".

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#192

Post by qb45 »

matt4077 wrote: post #187
logfromblammo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has dipped into the libertarian infinity pool of crazy, and flopped right over the side into the freefall insanity of pragmatic anarchism, I am aware that most lasting societal changes have only been accomplished by creating rivers of blood--the Reign of Terror, the Soviet Revolution, the Holocaust, the Killing Fields, etc. And I am also aware that the new boss is usually either the same as the old bos…

There's a revolution in the US every four to eight years. You just don't remember them /because/ they happen peacefully. And if those don't give you the drastic change your spoiled mind craves, that may just be because most people are happy enough with the status quo that they consider it unlikely that anything better would emerge from chaos–kinda like you don't throw a puzzle in the air if only a few pieces are miss…

> There's a revolution in the US every four to eight years.

Democracy is a fast-path civil war: "yeah, I guess we could go actually shooting each other but let's just count who has more men and move on".

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#193

Post by qb45 »

letmein wrote: post #184
lmm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

What can you and who's army do to NSA? That's right Orwell's bitches, you can't do nuffin. Except there is one way, the only way, but you're not going to like it, the same way Chemo is an indiscriminant carpet bomb that kills cancer and healthy cells. Cryptopocalypse. The End of All Crypto. No more crypto, no more NSA. It's that simple. NSA has 1 Achilles Heel, the most lop sided asymmetriccadvantage. They need crypt…

> No more crypto, no more NSA. It's that simple.

Not at all, they will still record all your comms to make sure you aren't spying on the US. Also keep producing malware, etc.

> DLP will also be the death of AES and any ciphers based on S-Boxes.

Source? The PDF you linked says nothing about AES and it looks like it would if this was true.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#194

Post by talmand »

hammock wrote: post #153
talmand wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because the title and bulk of the article directly attributes the problems discussed to Obama and his administration? That the ability to abuse such things was made easier during his term? The problem may be bigger than any one person, but that doesn't mean we don't discuss their possible role in that problem.

Who's to say that NSA did not blackmail Obama into expanding its powers or relaxing oversight?

Would not a discussion over Obama's possible involvement in the problem possibly bring such a thing to light? Is "he might have been blackmailed" a reason for everybody else to not discuss something?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#195

Post by logfromblammo »

matt4077 wrote: post #187
logfromblammo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has dipped into the libertarian infinity pool of crazy, and flopped right over the side into the freefall insanity of pragmatic anarchism, I am aware that most lasting societal changes have only been accomplished by creating rivers of blood--the Reign of Terror, the Soviet Revolution, the Holocaust, the Killing Fields, etc. And I am also aware that the new boss is usually either the same as the old bos…

There's a revolution in the US every four to eight years. You just don't remember them /because/ they happen peacefully. And if those don't give you the drastic change your spoiled mind craves, that may just be because most people are happy enough with the status quo that they consider it unlikely that anything better would emerge from chaos–kinda like you don't throw a puzzle in the air if only a few pieces are miss…

I don't crave any drastic change. I realized long ago that society is not a thing I can fix. So I changed myself, to not get so upset whenever confronted with more evidence that life is not fair. It doesn't really matter to me that the US elected a reality-show host as its President, because "the US" never really belonged to me. The illusion I carried of it in my head was never real. The real US doesn't care one infinitesimal iota for what I think. I'm just a kook, with no valuable insights whatsoever. Historically, the US has been generally content to leave me alone, as long as I pay more than the minimum measure of tribute, and don't stir up trouble. Abandon the illusion, and you lose all the cognitive dissonance that it fuels.

So have yourself a revolution. Or don't. Or rearrange the deck chairs and rename the ship. Do any of those things, but you're still caught up in the shared delusions of tribalism writ large.

Vonnegut said it best: "To find the substance of a granfalloon, just prick the skin of a toy balloon."

Every four to eight years, there is a great heaving shift in what people think they are supposed to be, with little to no fundamental basis in reality. Real wages have been stagnant in the US since the 1970s. Technology is better. Environmental catastrophe looms taller. Younger people agitate, and older people dissipate. Charlatans and con men ply their trade on the unsuspecting. Those who wish to eat must work, even if the work is gratuitous and unnecessary.

What really changes for that middle 80% of Earth's population? They gain freedom of speech? No one is listening. Freedom to own property? They can't afford to buy it. Freedom to cross borders? The available work-for-hire can move away faster than you can chase it. All the while, people like Putin and Trump wield the power to reduce all those people to radioactive dust without care, while meting out lesser (still deadly) consequences at whim, with even less possibility for remorse. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The tsar becomes the party leader. The shah becomes the ayatollah. The king becomes the president. Mr. Machiavelli sidles up, whispers into their ears, and the pigs move in to the farmer's house.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#196

Post by MR4D »

matt4077 wrote: post #187
logfromblammo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has dipped into the libertarian infinity pool of crazy, and flopped right over the side into the freefall insanity of pragmatic anarchism, I am aware that most lasting societal changes have only been accomplished by creating rivers of blood--the Reign of Terror, the Soviet Revolution, the Holocaust, the Killing Fields, etc. And I am also aware that the new boss is usually either the same as the old bos…

There's a revolution in the US every four to eight years. You just don't remember them /because/ they happen peacefully. And if those don't give you the drastic change your spoiled mind craves, that may just be because most people are happy enough with the status quo that they consider it unlikely that anything better would emerge from chaos–kinda like you don't throw a puzzle in the air if only a few pieces are miss…

Brexit is TBD. Seriously. The thing hasn't been implemented yet (hardly even an implementation strategy exists), so calling it for the worse is premature.

You may very well be right, but it's too soon to make that judgement rationally unless you want to call it a forecast.

Also, I'd add the Velvet Revolution to your list.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#197

Post by logfromblammo »

scaryspooky wrote: post #190
logfromblammo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't voted for the winner since 1996. As I don't see my own views or those of the major political parties changing any time soon, my voice is largely ignored in the current system. And it will likely continue to be ignored until the following happen: 1. Abolish gerrymandering in favor of a strictly algorithmic approach to redistricting that cannot take into account voting data from prior elections or current par…

And how, if we try to throw out the entire system, do you expect that to happen when it is clearly against the interest of the two major parties? That's why I said the push shouldn't be to burn down the whole system, it should be minor changes that both major parties can agree to implement. You can't shoot for the moon if you can't even get a launch pad.

The probability of it happening within the current system is zero. The probability of it happening spontaneously after nuking the current system from orbit is infinitesimal. The expected value calculation from throwing out the current system is strongly negative, whereas the expected value from maintaining the status quo gains at about 2%-4% per year.

Therefore, the likely course of action is clear. Such reforms will never be implemented, and I will essentially be permanently disenfranchised.

I can react to this inevitability with outraged dismay, or with grim resignation. I know what would make me happy, and that it makes sense, and also that it will simply not happen, because this representative democracy is a sham. I can try to ruin things for everyone else because it isn't fair, or I can accept them as they are and take my pathetic, lopsided share of that 2%-4%.

I'll take the latter.

If, however, the status quo implodes on its own, or explodes because someone got rid of it, I'd be all too happy to try to push the new thing that replaces it towards a better direction.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#198

Post by simonh »

sqeaky wrote: post #143
simonh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in America you have a variety of news sources available with different political and social agendas, including news sources that were able to legally publish material from people like Snowden and are free to report on issues like this. I many countries, you don't even get that and couldn't start your own news source with your preferred agenda even if you had the resources. Don't buy into the "we might as wel…

Just because we are better than some countries in some ways does not mean we are good enough. Media and the Government have lost the trust of many Americans. How do we improve America so those institutions are worthy of our higher standards of trust?

Which media? The media that published Snowden? Or Manning? The media that broke this NSA unlawful behaviour story?

Western media IMHO isnt really 'an institution', its hundreds of institutions. Me? I read the BBC for general current afairs, The Economist for in depth exploration of issues and topics and a bit of the Guardian here and there although it is a bit left wing for my tastes. Oh and once in a while Fox News just out morbid curiosity about what's going on in that particular alternate dimension of reality. There's plenty of choice out there.

I used to love reading the English edition of Pravda back when I was a student. I really miss the USSR, Putin and co are all the shittyness without any of the Red Star chic.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#199

Post by braveo »

spaceribs wrote: post #177
braveo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you wouldn't, that's internet badassery coupled with youth at work.

Versus grumpy old person pessimism? Don't pretend to know my convictions.

I'm not old, I'm just not young enough to romanticize prison.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#200

Post by dragonwriter »

logfromblammo wrote: post #185
scaryspooky wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vote could be considered completely pointless every year, because I do not vote for either of the 2 major parties. So should I just give up and quit voting? Should a Republican in New York just give up voting? What about a Democrat in Kansas? I think the change you should be advocating for is not throwing out the entire electoral college system, rather you should be advocating for small changes over time the syste…

I haven't voted for the winner since 1996. As I don't see my own views or those of the major political parties changing any time soon, my voice is largely ignored in the current system. And it will likely continue to be ignored until the following happen: 1. Abolish gerrymandering in favor of a strictly algorithmic approach to redistricting that cannot take into account voting data from prior elections or current par…

> 2. Abolish first-past-the-post, winner-take-all voting, probably using approval voting and some means of apportioning representation that is proportional to approvals.

Approval plus proportional is a bizarre concept; approval, to the extent it makes any sense for public elections (and there are serious problems with it for that purpose) makes sense really only for inherently single-winner elections.

For proportional systems with large bodies elected together, proportionality to first-party votes is probably the most sensible; for bodies small enough that doing that has significant wastage due to the threshold necessary to get one seat, something like STV (possibly modified to drop loser elimination) makes more sense than approval.

(A proportional, STV-like generalization of approval with a form of winner elimination might make sense, but seems intuitively worse than STV itself, even if approval ballots had consistent meanings.)

Post reply on HN