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NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

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Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#141

Post by daxorid »

lmm wrote: post #30
endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Jim Bell had some . . . interesting ideas about how to solve it.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#142

Post by wu-ikkyu »

omginternets wrote: post #96
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clandestine agencies are not subject to the same judicial process as the rest of us. Thats why they have "secret courts" and the magic words which trump the law: "national security".

Yes, and this modus operandi can be attacked through the court system.

Even if the courts ruled it as illegal, how can the ruling be enforced on clandestine operations?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#143

Post by sqeaky »

simonh wrote: post #46
DigitalJack wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care, but I don't have any faith in the factual truthfulness of the american government, the american media, or any public figure really. Not to single out america, it's just where I live. I'd be surprised if it were different anywhere else. It seems like it's just the way of things. Start out shiny, and slowly erode to decrepitude, to be pushed aside by the new shiny.

At least in America you have a variety of news sources available with different political and social agendas, including news sources that were able to legally publish material from people like Snowden and are free to report on issues like this. I many countries, you don't even get that and couldn't start your own news source with your preferred agenda even if you had the resources. Don't buy into the "we might as wel…

Just because we are better than some countries in some ways does not mean we are good enough. Media and the Government have lost the trust of many Americans.

How do we improve America so those institutions are worthy of our higher standards of trust?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#144

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

captainmuon wrote: post #97
lmm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Start a revolution. I'm only half joking. I think we can't solve these problems within the current political and economical and system. We have to found a new radical political movement. A lot of the problems we face: the crisis of representational democracy, populism, unemployment, xenophobia, the surveillance state, terrorism, ... cannot be solved individually, but I believe must be fixed simultaneously. We got to…

The American Revolution is one of the few outliers in history were such revolutionary action actually lead to such good results (relative to more likely possible alternatives). The cost of a revolution is heavy, and generally the outcome is almost certainly as bad or worse as the states of affairs that sparked it.

I'm a hopeless cynic, but I always find a bit of reluctant optimism about the present after reading a bit of history. Especially the dirtier sides of American history, politics, business, social norms, discrimination, etc. When I do, I can't help but conclude we Americans are living in the best version of America that has ever existed, to date, even with all the shit in front of us. And possibly even one of the least divisive and polarized versions of it as well, even though the popular consensus is just the opposite.

Basically, the system actually seems to kind of... sort of... work. No thanks on the revolution.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#145

Post by mirimir »

ekianjo wrote: post #140
mirimir wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of organizing and advocacy against the US War on Drugs got medical marijuana legalized in 29 states, and recreational marijuana legalized in eight states plus DC. Psilocybe spp are legal nowhere in the US. Darknet markets have made all drugs available everywhere. Just sayin'.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Federal government is still trying as much as possible to continue the War on Drugs no matter what the states' laws actually say.

True.

But I haven't seen news about mass arrests of buyers after Silk Road got pwned. Not in the US, anyway. I mean, could the courts handle the volume?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#146

Post by daxorid »

arca_vorago wrote: post #102
lmm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

The absolute first step is to take control of your devices. LineageOS or Replicant phone. GNU+Linux on computer, openwrt or similar on router/switches, ipfire similar on firewall. Firefox instead of chrome or opera. VLC instead of iTunes. Emacs/Vim instead of sublime. Blender instead of Maya. Etc. I'm working on this myself. It's not easy, but it is worth it. RMS was and is right: either the user controls the program…

Firefox instead of chrome

Although I understand your sentiment here on philosophic grounds, it would be far more practical to run Chrome, because the likelihood of NSA hoarding effective chrome 0days is much smaller than hoarding FF 0days.

Ideological purity is nice, but practical defense against the enemies of your ideology is better.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#147

Post by 5ilv3r »

ekianjo wrote: post #140
mirimir wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of organizing and advocacy against the US War on Drugs got medical marijuana legalized in 29 states, and recreational marijuana legalized in eight states plus DC. Psilocybe spp are legal nowhere in the US. Darknet markets have made all drugs available everywhere. Just sayin'.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Federal government is still trying as much as possible to continue the War on Drugs no matter what the states' laws actually say.

State lawmakers move on to federal lawmakers and generally appear to continue try to please their voters. By starting at the state level we have kicked the legs out from under the thing. It is falling.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#148

Post by Kalium »

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #144
captainmuon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start a revolution. I'm only half joking. I think we can't solve these problems within the current political and economical and system. We have to found a new radical political movement. A lot of the problems we face: the crisis of representational democracy, populism, unemployment, xenophobia, the surveillance state, terrorism, ... cannot be solved individually, but I believe must be fixed simultaneously. We got to…

The American Revolution is one of the few outliers in history were such revolutionary action actually lead to such good results (relative to more likely possible alternatives). The cost of a revolution is heavy, and generally the outcome is almost certainly as bad or worse as the states of affairs that sparked it. I'm a hopeless cynic, but I always find a bit of reluctant optimism about the present after reading a bi…

There's a strong argument to be made that the American Revolution was successful because it was actually a rebellion. Organized polities broke their ties, but largely preserved themselves and their leadership structures.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#149

Post by omginternets »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #142
omginternets wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and this modus operandi can be attacked through the court system.

Even if the courts ruled it as illegal, how can the ruling be enforced on clandestine operations? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

The solution to one problem should not be discounted on the grounds that it doesn't solve every problem.

>Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

You say this as though there were a known solution to the problem.

You may as well say "what about the heat death of the universe?" Quid de morte ad universum calorem, if you prefer ;)

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#150

Post by mirimir »

5ilv3r wrote: post #147
ekianjo wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Federal government is still trying as much as possible to continue the War on Drugs no matter what the states' laws actually say.

State lawmakers move on to federal lawmakers and generally appear to continue try to please their voters. By starting at the state level we have kicked the legs out from under the thing. It is falling.

That's excellent, no doubt.
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