Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

circa.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 225 posts

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#21

Post by mirimir »

fao_ wrote: post #16
endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

> The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitution violations and hollowing of citizen protection worldwide. It is amusing to me that -- in context of your comment -- the current second comment starts with "Well, this isn't news".

It's not news to me. But it does seem like most people don't care. Or don't care enough. However, what could they do, even if they cared enough?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#22

Post by benevol »

endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

Don't you think that comments like this one reinforce the subjectively perceived feeling of powerlessness?

Who are you benefiting by posting this? (I'm not saying this is the case here, but there are those people who want us to actually feel powerless, because it then translates into actual powerlessness.)

I'm sure you can think of more constructive ways of commenting.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#23

Post by godzillabrennus »

endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

I don't feel powerless. Balmer is bankrolling transparency and Project Sunshine is trying to increase our ability to interact with the federal government.

Private industry has created databases like PolicyGuru dot net to help at the local level.

Things are going to improve even if it takes a generation to get out the swamp monsters.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#24

Post by type0 »

mtgx wrote: post #19

So who's going to prison over these "illegal searches"? Oh, let me guess - nobody, because intelligence agencies seem to always be above the law?

Intelligence agencies often have judge Dredd mentality- "I never broke the law, I am the Law!"

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#25

Post by DigitalJack »

endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

I care, but I don't have any faith in the factual truthfulness of the american government, the american media, or any public figure really. Not to single out america, it's just where I live. I'd be surprised if it were different anywhere else.

It seems like it's just the way of things. Start out shiny, and slowly erode to decrepitude, to be pushed aside by the new shiny.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#26

Post by nl »

mirimir wrote: post #12

Well, this isn't exactly news. What's interesting, however, is how interagency sharing doesn't get mentioned often in this debate. Such as SOD, where DEA, DHS, FBI, IRS, etc can access the data.[0,1,2,3] And use it secretly in criminal investigations, through parallel construction. Which, by the way, involves criminal conspiracy to suborn perjury. 0) http://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130... 1)…

One unanticipated consequence of the Snowden revelations is that other agencies now know what to ask for.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#27

Post by acqq »

cxromos wrote: post #18
salesguy222 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this really interesting assertion in Weight of Chains 2 by Boris Malagurski: Serbia (Yugoslavia) before the Balkan Wars had an excellent education system that produced many scholars in the diaspora still today. The West/NATO/EU bombed that to the ground, along with the economy (factories, banks, telecom). Those who are still in Serbia now and are in charge have not been able to recreate an education system th…

I call Bullshit on you. The one of the product of that excellent education system was Milosevic as well. Serbia with Milosevic started the last Balkan Wars in its desire to renew Dusan's Empire, or in common tongue, to make a greater Serbia. First in Slovenia, later on in Croatia then in Bosnia and Herzegovina. When it started on the south, in between Serbia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, it became too…

Your version is as true as it was true that Iraq had WMD. Or that those against Assad are all "moderate rebels." There are definite similarities.

In reality, Bosniak Muslims were supported by al-Qaeda, bin Laden and his closest men had the passports made by the Bosniak Muslim government, which was also supported by the U.S.

It was all before 9/11, or "Iraq had WMD" affair, so it was very easy to sell.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#28

Post by josteink »

mtgx wrote: post #19

So who's going to prison over these "illegal searches"? Oh, let me guess - nobody, because intelligence agencies seem to always be above the law?

Why should the people in power go to prison for doing illegal stuff just because they got caught?

If they don't imprison themsleves, who's going to force them? What do they have to lose by not doing so themselves?

These are the simple questions (with relatively simple answers) you need to ask.

If they have nothing to lose, then why do you expect them to follow the law? Until you give them something to lose, why should you expect them to change their behaviour?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#29

Post by coldtea »

endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

>The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitution violations and hollowing of citizen protection worldwide.

The upside is that a society that doesn't care, eventually gets what it deserves.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#30

Post by lmm »

endymi0n wrote: post #11

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?)

Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can we do about it?

Post reply on HN