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Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

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101–108 of 108 posts

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#101

I stopped using Twitter after the election. The inability to express complex, nuanced, thorough ideas and responses, combined with its popularity (or at least, mass media influence), directly lead to Trump's election. The character limit, which I had perceived as merely an inconvenience for years, is actually a fundamental flaw which enabled a demagogue like him to succeed, and I refuse to participate in that stupidi…

I was thinking about stopping using Twitter but then realized that I'd never begun using it.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about censoring hate speech? Racist speech? Sexist speech? Xenophobic speech? Outright lies? False information? Trump has tweeted all of the above from time to time. What value does that sort of speech have? You might find the first three to be subjective, and I wouldn't entirely disagree with that, so how about the lies and false information? Should a person in a position of power be permitted to lie to people…

Who gets to decide whether someone's option falls under these categories? Anyone who is put in charge of classifying such things will have a lot of power that can easily be mismanaged. Furthermore, for what reason would you trust such a person? If you already distrust Trump will you trust him more if some nameless moderator will decide which posts are okay and which aren't? Besides, he's the POTUS and he has a lot of…

> Who gets to decide whether someone's option falls under these categories? Anyone who is put in charge of classifying such things will have a lot of power that can easily be mismanaged.

And will also be selectively enforced, as we've seen on basically every single social media platform today.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#103

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

This idea of unfettered free speech is going to kick the bucket, and very very soon - I am sorry to say. Be well warned - the stuff happening on reddit, the tools being developed by moderators are the epitome of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. The old generalized ideological position of Free Speech is no longer tenable, whether we like it or not. I'm a proponent of Free Speech, and I've spent the t…

>Free Speech was NEVER designed to deal with things like channel saturation and specialized targeting of the human hind brain which happens today.

>They can spam a single message, they can overwhelm normal discourse, and we have learnt that emotion over comes reason regularly. That's how the brain is designed.

ofc the limitations to free speech will define the boundaries such that they permit the above, provided the person doing it is making money from it. Any analysis that doesn't see the obvious way such limitations will backfire is naïve.

The venn diagram containing "mind poison" and "things we can no longer tolerate" have surprisingly little overlap. The most insidious mind poisons uses sensationalism, gamification, and outright psychological manipulation to influence the average Joe, while convincing Joe they are benign or even positive entities. The only things that will be targeted for banning are the ones the mind-poisoning forces have taught Joe to hate.

Joe doesn't need the things he hates banned, he knows how to identify them and he already has an opinion that will put him on guard against them. He has first-pass mental filters against them. If anything deserves to be banned for it's negative repercussions, the prime targets are those we can't/haven't built mental filters against. (Note: This is a very different category than the things we think out political opponents are too stupid to mentally filter). Filtering en mass without the societal standards shifting towards identifying and rejecting those that are actually bad for us will only serve to entrench the status quo.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#104
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree with you. Twitter should be publishing whatever the user wants to convey (unless its violating any local laws). They shouldnt be deciding whats right or wrong based on their personal opinion.

But should they decide what's right and wrong based on what is objectively right and wrong? I think it's an interesting question. If you build a tool that ends up being used as a platform to spread misinformation and lies, is that ok? Is it ok to censor that kind of thing? Set aside laws and general feelings about censorship. If certain kinds of speech are genuinely harmful to society, and if you can actually objecti…

[deleted]

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea of unfettered free speech is going to kick the bucket, and very very soon - I am sorry to say. Be well warned - the stuff happening on reddit, the tools being developed by moderators are the epitome of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. The old generalized ideological position of Free Speech is no longer tenable, whether we like it or not. I'm a proponent of Free Speech, and I've spent the t…

>Free Speech was NEVER designed to deal with things like channel saturation and specialized targeting of the human hind brain which happens today. >They can spam a single message, they can overwhelm normal discourse, and we have learnt that emotion over comes reason regularly. That's how the brain is designed. ofc the limitations to free speech will define the boundaries such that they permit the above, provided the…

If people can even recognize "mind poisons" I would be impressed.

Only in the past 6 months, have I clearly heard for calls fighting against games which have in built casino simulators. (aka gamefied games, or everything on Facebook)

And thats OBVIOUS stuff, designed to be that way, and openly discussed in pitch decks.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#106
post #60
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evan's quote wasn't about Twitter's architecture though, it was about "speaking freely and exchanging information and ideas," which is the thing he's sorry about facilitating, because it lead to Trump. The parent post seems spot on, to me.

Yes, your parent misrepresented the quote which indeed was about "free exchange of ideas facilitating Trump", but then the co-founder misrepresented what twitter actually is and this is what parent wanted to point out, I think. As a matter of fact, you can't express any serious idea in 140 characters. Twitter really is a tool for mobilizing and organizing mobs of people who are already somewhat familiar with and supp…

"As a matter of fact, you can't express any serious idea in 140 characters."

Everything is made of atoms.

The sun is an ordinary star.

Infections are caused by germs.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#107
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh this again. Free speech is an idea, not an amendment. If you censor opposing political views, you are antithetical to the concept and idea of free speech and you should be condemned.

What about censoring hate speech? Racist speech? Sexist speech? Xenophobic speech? Outright lies? False information? Trump has tweeted all of the above from time to time. What value does that sort of speech have? You might find the first three to be subjective, and I wouldn't entirely disagree with that, so how about the lies and false information? Should a person in a position of power be permitted to lie to people…

"Should a person in a position of power be permitted to lie to people to sway their opinion?"

Yes.

If you don't like it, then you can counter the speech that you disagree with, using speech of your own.

Let the marketplace of ideas sort it out.

I can read the facts and read competing opinions and then come to a conclusion on my own about who I agree with.

I do not need some gatekeeper deciding for me what I should believe.

The value of allowing "lies", is that you don't have gatekeepers or censors deciding for you about what you should believe.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#108
post #98
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>fighting a political battle on grounds where there is no space for actual exchange of ideas but only for appeals to emotions and prejudices, personal attacks and name calling. The early US election I remember was Bush v Kerry 2004. If you used those exact same words to describe the campaign back then, I wouldn't have disputed it. Twitter did not even exist until 2006. Did the internet enable Donald Trump? Absolutely…

You're talking as if it was a good thing, whereas it's anything but.

I'm in two minds about it. Good that it's possible, bad that it happened like this.
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