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1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

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Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#101

Post by JustSomeNobody »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #39
netgusto wrote: post #18

Wouldn't an alternative "destroy everything" password be a good idea also ? Would work like this : When forced to enter / give the password to your vault, you enter/give this one, and everything the vault contains is wiped out before the vault is unlocked.

Once again we drum up technical "solutions" to what ultimately is a policy issue. A better idea is to change our laws so that our constitutional rights are respected. If that's not possible then the next solution is to change our elected officials.

Nothing wrong with using technical "solutions" to prove the point of needing policy changes.

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#102

Post by late2part »

djsumdog wrote: post #94
tankenmate wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal employee is a felony; if you know you are answering untruthfully and the USG can prove it then you are probably going to prison.

I think we need a lawyer here, but this seems totally wrong. You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress. Cops lie to people all the time. You should use your right to be silent rather than answer any questions of course, but that right disappears at the border. Still, lying to a customs agent isn't a felony (at least not in the US). (If so, please cite the law). If you're not…

I believe you are ill-informed.

https://www.popehat.com/2011/12/01/reminder-oh-wont-you-plea...

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#105

Post by spathi_fwiffo »

crooked-v wrote: post #23
mcgrath_sh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the web interface handled? Essentially, where do you turn this on and off? Wouldn't it become standard ptotocol to just demand web credentials for 1Password? This feature is only for subscription based 1Password accounts, so it would seem to me it would just be easiest to delete the app and re-download after crossing?

Demanding web logins rather than local logins for anything is a step beyond the fuzzy legal authority currently given to the TSA.

web login is likely the same as app login credentials. I don't use 1password, but that's the generate case with LastPass (at least last time i used its mobile app).

So, if they take the actual password, as opposed to having you log in for them, then they can easily go to 1password's web interface.

I'm not sure if there is a legal barrier to taking that step, but there is no real barrier there if the credentials are the same.

Perhaps if there were also travel credentials, that would be useful. With the travel creds there would be no indication that you were in travel mode and no access to additional data.

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#106

Post by djsumdog »

rosser wrote: post #83
an_account wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the border patrol ask you to sign into any online service? Because that's essentially what this is. The data isn't on the computer they are searching, it's on a server thousands of miles away. The data was erased from the device. If they can force you to sign into that service, they could also force you to sign into your bank, github, etc.

> Can the border patrol ask you to sign into any online service? If you're a non-citizen attempting to enter the US under a visa waiver program, from certain countries, yes, they can.

Then you can just turn around and be deported. Non-citizens don't have many rights at the border.

The big questions is for Americans, who also have fewer rights at the border (4th amendment for example). Can they force you to sign into external services at the airport if you're a citizen? Everyone should refuse to do this.

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#107

Post by giobox »

peterkelly wrote: post #55
gruez wrote: post #31

Counter: the border agent asks "are you hiding any information from us?". answer yes, and they get you to disable travel mode. answer no, and you just committed a felony.

Answer no, and it's just as valid as if you had a hand-written notebook full of work-related records that you left in your office back home before traveling. There aren't any reasonable justifications for requiring you to bring all information you physically have access to you with you when traveling, regardless of the format it's stored in. Not bringing something with you is inherently different from hiding it.

> There aren't any reasonable justifications for requiring you to bring all information you physically have access to you with you when traveling... regardless of the format it's stored in.

I think many of us would equally argue there isn't any 'reasonable justification' for forcing phone unlocks on random strangers in airports, but that still happens. I think you are asking for a reasoned distinction from people incapable of drawing them, and that while what you say makes sense, we are not dealing with a sensible system.

I can absolutely envisage some asshole airport security staff member causing grief over these kind of features should they grow in popularity - the existing interactions over phone unlocks are already in a weird constitution-free legal grey area in the US, even for US citizens. For foreigners the situation is worse still - basically zero options but compliance, or feel free to go home and never be granted entry ever again.

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#108

Post by late2part »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #90
awinter-py wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a citizen you don't have to answer any question until you've been accused of a crime and have a lawyer present. Also, the case law is iffy on whether a one-word answer of 'no' can be used in an obstruction charge. (read about 'exculpatory no doctrine').

I don't know, I think the border is a no-man's land. They can pretty much keep you in limbo as long as they want. Edit: Yes, US citizens are allowed to ask for a lawyer (at the U.S. Border). But, the 4th Amendment is mostly out the window.

That's not really true. As a US Citizen, on basic legal principle, I believe that once Immigration has established you are a US Citizen, they have to let you leave unless they suspect you of a crime.

Customs is sort of a different issue, they can go through your physical and digital belongings and search you.

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#109

Post by rosser »

djsumdog wrote: post #94
tankenmate wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal employee is a felony; if you know you are answering untruthfully and the USG can prove it then you are probably going to prison.

I think we need a lawyer here, but this seems totally wrong. You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress. Cops lie to people all the time. You should use your right to be silent rather than answer any questions of course, but that right disappears at the border. Still, lying to a customs agent isn't a felony (at least not in the US). (If so, please cite the law). If you're not…

> You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress.

False: the relevant statute, 18 USC § 1001, doesn't mention the word "oath" once, and applies to "any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States".

Re: 1Password Travel Mode: Protect your data when crossing borders

#110

Post by vorticalbox »

peeters wrote: post #89
tankenmate wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal employee is a felony; if you know you are answering untruthfully and the USG can prove it then you are probably going to prison.

What lie has been told?

From what I understand, it removes everything but ones marked as safe therefore you're not hiding anything.

It's like moving your private files from a device before travelling, you're not hiding anything you just didn't bring it.

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