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How jeans conquered the world (2012)

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Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#41

Post by anigbrowl »

baus wrote: post #23
nightski wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality difference would have to be substantial. I bring in a very high income for my area, and the thought of spending $300-$400 on a single pair of jeans is pretty out there. An $80 pair of jeans, which will often be on sale for $40-$50 will last me for 2-3 years and are of average quality. It seems to me like one would have to justify these jeans on the fashion/novelty aspect, and not quality/value as it just…

If you take a pair of unwashed 501s and compare them to a pair of unwashed Iron Heart denim, you will see that the quality difference is substantial. Whether that matters is something you have to decide for yourself Since I wear denim almost everyday, the quality difference and the attention to detail matters to me. It reminds me that attention to detail matters in my own work I don't understand why engineers tend to…

I don't understand why engineers tend to care so little about the quality of their clothes

Virtue signaling. It says you're focused on your intellectual pursuits rather than material things (in contrast to 'the suits'). This is actually great from a hiring manager's point of view, because you can also guess (guess, not know) from someone's appearance whether they are single and to what degree they take care of themselves, while will in turn give an idea of how much work you can pile onto them before they figure it out or change their personality.

For those who don't 'get' clothes (as a former sufferer): you may not be able to readily distinguish expensive clothes from cheap ones, or see the point of wearing them. But other people do, and if you look like money, you will be able to get more money in negotiations. If you look or say that you don't care about such things, you'll get lots of affirmation and less money, because affirmation is virtually free.

There's also a kind of signaling by people who are rich enough not to care about these things and dress accordingly, which is a way of reminding other people that you have so much money you don't care about what impression you make. This only works when people already know you're wealthy, though.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#42

Post by anigbrowl »

ashark wrote: post #40
anigbrowl wrote: post #24

I stopped wearing them 2 years ago and don't miss them at all. Of course I still have some and will put them on sometimes when its practical, but modern denim just doesn't seem to be as hard wearing as it used to be, and I'm also sick of the weight and poor fit. I was especially annoyed a few years ago to find my favorite brand had slightly shortened the zipper, thus eliminating the whole benefit of being able to pee…

> I was especially annoyed a few years ago to find my favorite brand had slightly shortened the zipper, thus eliminating the whole benefit of being able to pee standing up because it was difficult to get my hand inside the smaller opening and uncomfortable to have it pinching me while I use the toilet. Button fly is the only way to fly. Started as a skeptic, now a total convert.

I had the same experience. I wonder if it was the popular resurgence of the button fly that led to the zippers getting shortened.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#43

Post by hx87 »

nightski wrote: post #21
huac wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue Owl in Seattle is good too. These denim stores are mostly focused on raw denim, which is generally a much higher quality garment than available normally.

The quality difference would have to be substantial. I bring in a very high income for my area, and the thought of spending $300-$400 on a single pair of jeans is pretty out there. An $80 pair of jeans, which will often be on sale for $40-$50 will last me for 2-3 years and are of average quality. It seems to me like one would have to justify these jeans on the fashion/novelty aspect, and not quality/value as it just…

From those numbers it seems like if the $300-400 pair lasts 10-15 years and you have a low personal discount rate they would be worth the cost.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#44

Post by icc97 »

When 90% of the people around you are all wearing some shade of blue jeans, its a bit the same as everybody driving around in cars in some shade of grey (which they do at least in Belgium).

That is, it's just really boring. Colour is one of the few things we've got to express ourselves, so it's a shame we don't use it more.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#45

Post by protomyth »

jakub_g wrote: post #37

I must be a weird one, but while I used to like jeans, I stopped wearing them a few years ago. I only wear cotton pants those days. Every time I wear jeans, I'd feel itching very soon, particularly when it's hot, or when I wear the same pants two days in a row. I'm not sure if either I didn't notice this before, or did I change, or the production process of the jeanswear has changed.

I don't think its weird. I went from jeans to khakis and now I'm back to jeans. I do think the production process changed and newer jeans seem cheaper and itchy. Weirdly, when I went back to jeans I switched from Levis to Wranglers and some of those seem decent and some really suck.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#46

Post by Nav_Panel »

thomasfrank09 wrote: post #13
amelius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, choice is very limited. Yet ... still when I need to find a pair of trousers, it can take me half a day of shopping. Online shopping is no good either, because I can't just write "low waist boot cut jeans, size 32/34" in any search engine. Even Amazon can't grok it. Seriously, somebody should fill that market gap.

Those are pretty much what I wear (except straight leg instead of boot cut), and the best I've found so far are at Buckle. All the Levi's I tried seemed weirdly high-waisted, and stuff at other stores didn't fit so well either.

> All the Levi's I tried seemed weirdly high-waisted

This is surprising to me. Most contemporary Levi's I've tried seem quite low-waisted, so I'm forced to buy vintage for a more traditional high-waisted fit.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#48

Post by chris_7 »

nightski wrote: post #21
huac wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue Owl in Seattle is good too. These denim stores are mostly focused on raw denim, which is generally a much higher quality garment than available normally.

The quality difference would have to be substantial. I bring in a very high income for my area, and the thought of spending $300-$400 on a single pair of jeans is pretty out there. An $80 pair of jeans, which will often be on sale for $40-$50 will last me for 2-3 years and are of average quality. It seems to me like one would have to justify these jeans on the fashion/novelty aspect, and not quality/value as it just…

At $200 you can buy Outlier pants (or Mission Workshop, no experience with those though). At $400 you can buy freaking Arc'teryx Veilance pants. That's way too much for something that is just cotton (and not even etaProof or anything interesting).

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#49

Post by chrisseaton »

anigbrowl wrote: post #34
coldtea wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A far as male pants/trousers go, your choices are basically jeans, corduroys, or khakis (chinos) Why, what happened to cotton lycra, herringbone, linen, traditional business suit trousers etc?

It's interesting but sad that you're being so heavily downvoted for suggesting options outside the subcultural norm. When I was a young hacker coming to work in jeans was frowned upon and I had to put up with a lot of hassle for looking too casual. I've been surprised and disappointed to see the emergence of 'casual conformism' which encourages comfort but retains hostility to anything too different from the common t…

Right - west-coast tech companies have a dress code as strict as old fashioned companies - it just has different things on the list.

In reality, no work place or social event has no dress code. We've just made it even harder by not having names for any of it.

When I worked in a very traditional industry the dress code was always clear - semi-formal, informal, planter's, etc all had clear specific meanings and you could not make a mistake. When I go to a Google office, or a fashionable wedding they say 'wear whatever you are comfortable in' but if I wore a suit to Google or jeans to the wedding I'd be doing it wrong, so it's not honest.

Re: How jeans conquered the world (2012)

#50

Post by wutbrodo »

anigbrowl wrote: post #41
baus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a pair of unwashed 501s and compare them to a pair of unwashed Iron Heart denim, you will see that the quality difference is substantial. Whether that matters is something you have to decide for yourself Since I wear denim almost everyday, the quality difference and the attention to detail matters to me. It reminds me that attention to detail matters in my own work I don't understand why engineers tend to…

I don't understand why engineers tend to care so little about the quality of their clothes Virtue signaling. It says you're focused on your intellectual pursuits rather than material things (in contrast to 'the suits'). This is actually great from a hiring manager's point of view, because you can also guess (guess, not know) from someone's appearance whether they are single and to what degree they take care of themse…

Oh please. Virtue signalling is a useful topic, but it gets really tiresome to see people who just discovered the concept run around and excitedly apply it to everything, like a child with a new toy.

The downside of higher quality clothing (money) is obvious: it's the upside that needs explaining. Fashion is the prototypical example of signaling, and quality as held separate from fashion has a couple minor advantages like being long-lasting and marginally more comfortable that many people feel aren't worth the price.

I dress moderately well, but that's largely against my preferences. I do it because I'm aware that people treat you differently based on how you look and how you dress, and I've decided that the cost and annoyance of putting together a good wardrobe is worth the benefits. To be clear, I've got a pretty low opinion of those who judge others based on their attire, but I'm realistic (and cynical) enough to get that that's the world I live in.

I've worked with a lot of incredibly smart engineers at places like Google, and the people I know pretty much ran the gamut of caring about the quality of their clothing. The only difference is that they tended to have their work performance judged on productivity instead of fashion so, relative to others, their calculus for how to dress included one less variable in favor of dressing up.

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