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Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

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Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#111
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally everytime you boot the first screen tells you how to quit and get help. So..read the screen that comes up Everytime? If you try Ctrl c it tells you it's :q.

That's the point. That behavior is contrary to the expectation. Ctrl+C should not display a message: Ctrl+C should quit immediately.

On many editors ctrl-c is the copy key. Not a good key to exit on...

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#112
That's funny because I feel that exiting vim is easy. On the other hand, exiting from nano is a nightmare and makes no sense to me - To make matters worse, it's difficult to find info online because it's hard to explain nano's confusing interface with keywords. I hate how git made nano the default editor on Ubuntu. Every time I install git, I have to remember to change the configs to use vim as the default.

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#113
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally everytime you boot the first screen tells you how to quit and get help. So..read the screen that comes up Everytime? If you try Ctrl c it tells you it's :q.

That's the point. That behavior is contrary to the expectation. Ctrl+C should not display a message: Ctrl+C should quit immediately.

Coming from the Windows world, I am happy that Ctrl+C doesn't make assumptions and quit. Imagine attempting to copy something and having your file close without warning.

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#114

I barely use any Vim, but I'm more confused about there being some hidden complexity in exiting Vim that I'm not aware of. Isn't it just... [Esc] :wq ...or... [Esc] :q! ...depending if you want to save the current document or not?

or even:

[Esc] :x

to save and exit.

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that I've never seen any OS/Linux distribution set default EDITOR to vim. If EDITOR is set to vim, then someone must intentionally did that.

git bash on windows has vim as the default editor when editing commit messages

Maybe someone should file a bug to them? I don't think vim is a sane default value for EDITOR, but I have no idea whether there's any sane alternative on Windows.

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#118

(Attribution is questionable, but as a geezer I feel the need to make sure the younger generations at least are familiar with this:) ed is the standard text editor Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed: golem> ed ? help ? ? ? quit ? exit ? bye ? hello? ? eat flaming death ? ^C ? ^C ? ^D ? --- Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet pruden…

Also keep in mind that ex is a part of vi and vim, and is an improved version of ed. All : commands in vi(m) are actually ex commands

Excellent point. I'm an Emacs guy by habit, but I'm also a sysadmin, which means I keep a well-stocked repertoire of ex commands ready for when the shit really hits the fan.

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a poor argument. If it's the one singular thing that's frustrating this many users, that's a reason to focus on particular on fixing it somehow. You also need to take into account that most users encountering this problem are not deliberate vim learners: they ended up in vim by accident. That said, as others have pointed out, the vim developers can't really be blamed here as it's just a very hard prob…

There is a common convention, though, which is: don't use modal interfaces, modal interfaces are bad. The problem vim has is that its UI is entirely organized around modes, which makes the "people are terrible at using modal interfaces" problem a hard one for it to cope with.

Modal interfaces are bad; yet it's what differentiates Vim from everything else, and thousands of people actively enjoy using Vim.

Not to mention your OS is full of modal interfaces. "Why can't I type?" "You have a menu open." "Why can't I type when my cursor is over this window?" "You have a different window as your focus." "Why doesn't space pause this YouTube video?" "Because play wasn't the last button clicked." "WHY ALL CAPS?" "Check your capslock key."

Re: Helping a Million Developers Exit Vim

#120
post #5
post #3

Obviously my personal bias, but it's emacs I can never remember how to exit from.

C-M-footpedal1-q

I seriously would like to have a pedalboard with, say, 5 pedals that i could map to specific functions on Emacs.

It would be terrific, particularly for Lisp development with SLIME.

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