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At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

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Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#81

Post by trevyn »

tehlike wrote: post #17
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #7

I feel this might be problematic. The Soviet block countries had something called a culture of criticism and self-criticism. As part of this culture, factories would orchestrate meetings in which people who ran afoul of party management were publicly humiliated by their colleagues and ostracized. What's wrong with simply firing people who are implicated in harassment and possibly reporting them to law enforcement?

"What's wrong with simply firing people who are implicated in harassment and possibly reporting them to law enforcement?" on what evidence/grounds?

None needed, California is an "at-will" employment state -- you can be fired for any legal reason or none at all.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#82

Post by krzyk »

Chris2048 wrote: post #48
occamrazor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree that someone who is on leave, and doesn't work, indeed"meets" expectations. It would be a problem only if everybody is expected to exceed expectations, but then all the evaluation process becomes, almost by definition, nonsensical.

Isn't exceeds like getting a bonus? You still want bonus while on paternity? I thought only legal requirement is base rate and expected payments - which a bonus is not?

As others have wrote, paternity is like a vacation. It's time off work, you can't be evaluated on that time, it's like it doesn't exists for evaluation. So if you exceeded expectations a day before taking paternity you still do the day you are back.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#83

Post by zghst »

I can see this getting out of hand quickly. Humans have a tendency to amplify anxiety of local, improbable events. This is essentially a weapon that can quickly impact morale and elevate disruptive conversations that will become far removed from the situation with too many participants. I'd have optin, in-person support groups where nothing leaves the room and it is limited in size. Sometimes spreading a problem across more people does not fix it, it only makes it worse.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#85

Post by mcgrath_sh »

to3m wrote: post #9
1ba9115454 wrote: post #3

- A female employee was allegedly called a “princess” for favoring salad over burgers. I imagine the guy that delivered that comment would be hard pushed to figure out what he did wrong. I suppose we all have to really careful what we say.

Hmm. I'm actually struggling to think of a situation where it would be the done thing to call one of your colleagues "princess", be they male or female.

We played Mario Kart at our office Christmas party. My colleague was racing as Princess Peach. I made a remark saying "Princess Peach over here..."

Other than that, I cannot think of a single place that is appropriate.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#86

Post by auserperson »

1ba9115454 wrote: post #3

- A female employee was allegedly called a “princess” for favoring salad over burgers. I imagine the guy that delivered that comment would be hard pushed to figure out what he did wrong. I suppose we all have to really careful what we say.

It's unprofessional. If the person who was called princess felt uncomfortable enough to write about it, it indicates they were not friends and this is not their common relationship.

It's can be a disrespectful joke. Besides, it's a gendered joke. If it was directed to a woman, it's very impolite, given the constant pressure on woman to keep thin in society and how that is a frequent bias towards woman. If it was a man, it sounds very transphobic/homophobic, as in "you're less because you act like a woman", besides man also deals with fat shaming. And a lot of people deal with eating disorders, so making fun of people eating choices at work is not a good idea.

Of course, if they were friends, I mean actual friends. It would be fine. If one person had felt offended, they would be able to say that to the other, instead of an anonymous mailing list. Or if they didn't felt offended, they could laugh together and each to it's own. But it's clearly not the case. So it's a good idea to avoid this sort of behavior to people that you don't know well, even you get along with them in a work environment.

If people feel they need a guideline to avoid this behavior and not feel like they need to be hard pushed to figure out what they did wrong, here it is: you can make this sort of joke to someone who is your friend (friend enough to regularly see each other outside of work, take care of each other kids, trust in each other in personal matters), if not, it's not work appropriate.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#87

Post by icc97 »

I think this is excellent, especially seeing as how so often HR's duty is only to the company and not to the employee making the complaint.

Tangentially I wonder if a similar system could be used to report bullying in schools. Perhaps the anonymity only works at a certain scale.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#88

Post by nerdponx »

Chris2048 wrote: post #57
nerdponx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on the context. But yes, we all have to be really careful what we say. Not for fear of being shamed -- for fear of offending someone! Calling someone a "princess" for liking salads could easily be taken as an offense, gender aside. It's the same reason you don't just go around talking politics in the officf. Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace.

> Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace. Or freely leave until you find a place that's cool.

Insulting your coworkers is not "cool".

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#90

Post by auserperson »

Chris2048 wrote: post #57
nerdponx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on the context. But yes, we all have to be really careful what we say. Not for fear of being shamed -- for fear of offending someone! Calling someone a "princess" for liking salads could easily be taken as an offense, gender aside. It's the same reason you don't just go around talking politics in the officf. Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace.

> Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace. Or freely leave until you find a place that's cool.

This reeks of privilege.

A lot of people leaves until they find a place where they can get a paycheck, do their job, and not be discriminated.

If you can choose jobs for their "coolness" factor, you don't seem to have this problem. So you should at least understand that inclusive and professional behavior, even though is "uncool" for you, it's vital for a lot of people.

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