At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints • Hacker News Board

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#11

Post by nerdponx » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:20 PM UTC

1ba9115454 wrote: post #3

- A female employee was allegedly called a “princess” for favoring salad over burgers. I imagine the guy that delivered that comment would be hard pushed to figure out what he did wrong. I suppose we all have to really careful what we say.

It all depends on the context.

But yes, we all have to be really careful what we say. Not for fear of being shamed -- for fear of offending someone! Calling someone a "princess" for liking salads could easily be taken as an offense, gender aside.

It's the same reason you don't just go around talking politics in the officf. Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#12

Post by camus2 » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:22 PM UTC

sacheendra wrote: post #10

1ba9115454 wrote: post #3

- A female employee was allegedly called a “princess” for favoring salad over burgers. I imagine the guy that delivered that comment would be hard pushed to figure out what he did wrong. I suppose we all have to really careful what we say.

Can you explain specifically whats wrong with the comment. This could be making fun of a friend. How is this harassment?

> Can you explain specifically whats wrong with the comment.

Obviously casual sexism. Friend or not that's not professional to call a colleague that way at the workplace.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#13

Post by jowiar » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:23 PM UTC

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #7

I feel this might be problematic. The Soviet block countries had something called a culture of criticism and self-criticism. As part of this culture, factories would orchestrate meetings in which people who ran afoul of party management were publicly humiliated by their colleagues and ostracized. What's wrong with simply firing people who are implicated in harassment and possibly reporting them to law enforcement?

Not everything that creates a negative environment is a fireable offense, and the folks who the burden of that behavior falls on don't generally want to get folks fired unnecessarily. Creating a discussion of "Hey, can we not do this" is a better solution to a lot of issues than reporting things to an opaque body that takes the approach of "Is this exposing us to a lawsuit, if so, fired. Otherwise, do nothing"

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#14

Post by ue_ » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:24 PM UTC

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #7

I feel this might be problematic. The Soviet block countries had something called a culture of criticism and self-criticism. As part of this culture, factories would orchestrate meetings in which people who ran afoul of party management were publicly humiliated by their colleagues and ostracized. What's wrong with simply firing people who are implicated in harassment and possibly reporting them to law enforcement?

> factories would orchestrate meetings in which people who ran afoul of party management were publicly humiliated by their colleagues and ostracized.

I think this is a very wrong-headed way to go about self-criticism. It shouldn't be about loyalty to a party, it should be about recognition of faults and how to improve them. This is how I envisage worker control of production should be like, anyway. We should have a culture of criticism and self-criticism, in my opinion, because it does not necessitate meanness or humiliation.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#15

Post by hetspookjee » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:27 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

Is this what got Amit Singhal in the first place, perhaps? (EDIT: I guess not, he left fifteen months ago, this list is eight months old.) It's briefly mentioned in this article, but I was shocked less people talked about what the Amit Singhal story meant for Google. That one of their most senior executives, who at one point rewrote the entire Google Search engine, when that was possible for one person to do, and wor…

I think it's reasonable to think that the public awareness contributed to his departure, almost to the extend of being responsible I'd reckon.

I don't think he started suddenly, but rather has done it for a very long time. Being such an immensly valuable asset does buy you slack, I bet.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#16

Post by arethuza » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:27 PM UTC

sacheendra wrote: post #10

1ba9115454 wrote: post #3

- A female employee was allegedly called a “princess” for favoring salad over burgers. I imagine the guy that delivered that comment would be hard pushed to figure out what he did wrong. I suppose we all have to really careful what we say.

Can you explain specifically whats wrong with the comment. This could be making fun of a friend. How is this harassment?

"Princess" in the UK at least would be pretty offensive in that context - I wouldn't dream of calling a colleague that.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#17

Post by tehlike » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:31 PM UTC

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #7

I feel this might be problematic. The Soviet block countries had something called a culture of criticism and self-criticism. As part of this culture, factories would orchestrate meetings in which people who ran afoul of party management were publicly humiliated by their colleagues and ostracized. What's wrong with simply firing people who are implicated in harassment and possibly reporting them to law enforcement?

"What's wrong with simply firing people who are implicated in harassment and possibly reporting them to law enforcement?"

on what evidence/grounds?

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#18

Post by jk563 » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:33 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #16

sacheendra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain specifically whats wrong with the comment. This could be making fun of a friend. How is this harassment?

"Princess" in the UK at least would be pretty offensive in that context - I wouldn't dream of calling a colleague that.

Depends on the colleague, I have done that and similar many times previously and had similar back.

The comment is made, we laugh, he has his salad, I eat my burger, we moved on to something else.

(UK)

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#19

Post by jschwartzi » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:33 PM UTC

to3m wrote: post #9

1ba9115454 wrote: post #3

- A female employee was allegedly called a “princess” for favoring salad over burgers. I imagine the guy that delivered that comment would be hard pushed to figure out what he did wrong. I suppose we all have to really careful what we say.

Hmm. I'm actually struggling to think of a situation where it would be the done thing to call one of your colleagues "princess", be they male or female.

If you know them well enough that they understand that you're joking, then it's probably okay. If you're not sure, then don't. I do have female friends at the office who might find that funny, but only because we know each other and we give each other as good as we get. The difference is that we are friends not just colleagues, which is on a different level, interpersonally.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#20

Post by School-Cotton » Tue, May 23, 2017, 2:34 PM UTC

snomad wrote: post #8

> One employee said that during a one-on-one performance review with a manager, he was told that his rating dropped from "Exceeds" to "Meets" because he didn't get as much done while on paternity leave. If true, that is quite obviously legally actionable.

Why? What law was violated?