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Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#481

Post by gassist »

cramforce wrote: post #165

With respect to scrolling: We (AMP team) filed a bug with Apple about that (we didn't implement scrolling ourselves, just use a div with overflow). We asked to make the scroll inertia for that case the same as the normal scrolling. Apple's response was (surprisingly) to make the default scrolling like the overflow scrolling. So, with the next Safari release all pages will scroll like AMP pages. Hope Gruber is happy t…

Google needs to kill AMP. Like many other teams in Google they are filled with arrogant people who believes everything Google have to become "standards" and don't give a damn about how they are being arseholes on other platforms.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#483

Post by amazingman »

imron wrote: post #398
amazingman wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A hypocrite (Gruber, as evidenced in another thread) calls the AMP team hacks who do terrible work I must have missed this. When did Gruber call the AMP team hacks? > Turns out their "terrible work" is actually Apple's bug and the AMP team points this out both to Apple and to Gruber. This is flat out disingenuous, unless you're talking about something other than the originally submitted DF article. There were multip…

> When did Gruber call the AMP team hacks? The link of this thread was originally [0]. Although he didn't use the word 'hack' himself, Gruber said: "Google has no respect for the platform. If I had my way, Mobile Safari would refuse to render AMP pages. It’s a deliberate effort by Google to break the open web." So he sees them as intentionally sabotaging things. 0: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/05/20/gilbert…

Indeed, that's in alignment with what I had seen. It seems obvious at least to me that the actual character of Gruber's statements and @julianmarq's portrayal of those statements do not agree.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#484

Post by amazingman »

virgilp wrote: post #470
amazingman wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A hypocrite (Gruber, as evidenced in another thread) calls the AMP team hacks who do terrible work I must have missed this. When did Gruber call the AMP team hacks? > Turns out their "terrible work" is actually Apple's bug and the AMP team points this out both to Apple and to Gruber. This is flat out disingenuous, unless you're talking about something other than the originally submitted DF article. There were multip…

> Are you claiming that all of them are "Apple's bug"? Let's see: - find in page: yup, Webkit bug (Google/Chrome uses Blink). - scrolling behaviour: yup, Safari bug. Anything else that I missed?

And how would you characterize Google's decision to ship it in this state, knowing that the behavior was broken in iOS Safari?

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#485

Post by shados »

carpenumidium wrote: post #476
shados wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you follow those guidelines and with the right meta data, they get treated specially by certain 3rd party, like google/android letting you update them in the app store. Just like AMP are fundamentally websites built on a bunch of guidelines with performance and accessibility prioritized which, once you sprinkle them with enough metadata, get treated specialty by third party like google. Yeah, I don't think I m…

> like google/android letting you update them in the app store. Update what? What do you mean by "app store"?

sorry, terrible choice of words on my part (more like the world's worse freudian slip, as I was thinking "like apps in the app store). I meant that they're going to show up like any other app in the app list, settings to be tweaked/modified/deleted and so on.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#486

Post by virgilp »

MBCook wrote: post #474
virgilp wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you claiming that all of them are "Apple's bug"? Let's see: - find in page: yup, Webkit bug (Google/Chrome uses Blink). - scrolling behaviour: yup, Safari bug. Anything else that I missed?

It was an intentional decision, not a bug: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14386292

> This is semi-accidental.

I.e., "not design decision".

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#487

Post by discordance »

bsimpson wrote: post #396
discordance wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like the principles (minus the tracking) of AMP should become a W3C spec. Surprised Microsoft and others haven't pushed for this.

What tracking? I'm not aware of anything AMP does differently than non-AMP with regard to tracking, except that it's declared in a way that allows it to be cached+preloaded without falsely triggering analytics.

When a user searches for an article on Google and clicks on an AMP link it never leaves google.com, even if the AMP link is an external entity.

Repro: 1. Search for some BBC news on google.com, click on an AMP link and load a BBC page 2. Notice that you're still on google.com and not on bbc.com

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#488

Post by Laforet »

0x0 wrote: post #172
Laforet wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conceptually this isn't all that different from having a website that works in browser A but not B due to insufficient testing. Why did they not fix it?

Because how many website operators continuously google their own web site on mobile devices to click through to experience their google-hosted AMP editions? I would wager it's a fairly small % of the number of websites running an auto-AMP-ifying wordpress plugin, for example.

I've seen plenty of badly designed mobile websites over the years and these sites seems to have turned out okay - most mobile browsers keep the option of "Request Desktop site" very accessible for a good reason.

The worse case I've seen is a site in which every page crashed Mobile Safari without fail regardless of which version you ask for. It was eventually fixed but I never figured out why. If the sites are just running some script without checking then the admins have failed their line of duty.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#489

Post by 52-6F-62 »

slowhands wrote: post #473
52-6F-62 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google is sometimes too helpful, correcting errors that are not actually errors and failing to take some queries literally enough. While I am still personally a huge fan of Google's work in this are and many others, sometimes I long for the days of straight boolean search queries in search engines. I could often find exactly what I'm looking for, and get the same result each time. Are there any other major or effect…

A full set boolean queries, while useful for specifying a query, are likely far too computationally expensive at scale. The reason you don't see most major search engines abandon them is because the resources are better spent investing into heuristic algorithms that benefit a majority of the userbase.

I just saw this now. Thanks, that makes sense. Just the same, I still miss the utility of it!
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