Perhaps they should not accept healthcare cost as is? Wages of physicians are insane in the US (because the price of the education is insane?), as are the prices of medcine. Just think of what Pharma has to spend on commercials in the US. All that money is a big waste.
Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
51–60 of 85 posts
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed. An alternative view on this: > The state would pay for almost all of its residents’ medical expenses — inpatient, outpatient, emergency services, dental, vision, mental health, and nursing home care — under the plan, and Californians would not have any premiums, copays, or deductibles. > That’s an incredible deal for just 15% of GDP, which again is lower than the US as a whole already spends on health care. h…
Single payer would be a great improvement on the current nightmare of American healthcare, but let's not kid ourselves that this is an incredible deal. The UK spent 8.5% of GDP on healthcare in 2013 (life expectancy in the UK is marginally higher than in California.) Most European countries spend around 11%.
Single payer != universal health care.
Single payer is likely no not work in the US, but there are plenty of other solutions out there.
Europe has universal health care, not every country has single payer the UK and France do, NL and Germany do not.
Also in all honesty unless you have cancer or something else which completely degenerative the NHS is garbage that no one outside of the low income brackets wants to deal with.
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#53Few know this: The United States currently spends more money per capita on socialized medicine than any other country except Norway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... In fact, the US spends more on socialized medicine than Japan, the UK and Finland spend in total , private and public spending. The US healthcare system is totally out of control. Nothing will fix it until there is a collap…
My friend has dual U.S.-Swedish citizenship. It's crazy to think, but a few times now he's actually flown out to Sweden to have a medical procedure performed, because it's _cheaper_ to get an international round-trip ticket to Sweden then it would be to just have the procedure done in the U.S. (where he lives). And it's never been anything big; just outpatient type stuff.
The U.S. healthcare system _is_ totally out of control.
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I challenge you to put a dollar value on the pax Americana It's been near constant actual war with an entirely constant internal war footing and national security state limiting basic freedoms justified by the war footing. There is no pax Americana.
The number of people who have died in armed conflicts throughout the entirety of the globe as a percentage of the population is the lowest it has ever been in human history. The number of wars between nations is at the lowest rate in all of human history. Yes, wars occur and will continue to occur, but to assert that the last 70 years of human history is not in a relatively peaceful time is historically disengenious.…
Not to argue one way or the other because I don't know. But I think that the overall trend comes from way before American military hegemony. And the European Community-now-Union is usually acknowledged by historians for the peace in Europe.
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
The number of people who have died in armed conflicts throughout the entirety of the globe as a percentage of the population is the lowest it has ever been in human history. The number of wars between nations is at the lowest rate in all of human history. Yes, wars occur and will continue to occur, but to assert that the last 70 years of human history is not in a relatively peaceful time is historically disengenious.…
Not to argue one way or the other because I don't know. But I think that the overall trend comes from way before American military hegemony. And the European Community-now-Union is usually acknowledged by historians for the peace in Europe.
The peace in Europe today is a direct result of nato and the threat of invasion from the soviets during the 50s through early 90s. You gotta remember that the Americans occupied western Germany up until reunification (we still have huge military bases in germany) and provided finances to pretty much every european country during their reconstruction periods after the devastation of the world under thr conditions of alliance against communism . Europe hasn't been in a place to fight eachother again because of threat of Soviet invasion and forced alliances with eachother under the American umbrella.
Edit: also how can European peace have come from before American hegemony when American hegemony was a direct result of the European powers destroying eachother in a world war?
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to argue one way or the other because I don't know. But I think that the overall trend comes from way before American military hegemony. And the European Community-now-Union is usually acknowledged by historians for the peace in Europe.
The peace in Europe today is a direct result of nato and the threat of invasion from the soviets during the 50s through early 90s. You gotta remember that the Americans occupied western Germany up until reunification (we still have huge military bases in germany) and provided finances to pretty much every european country during their reconstruction periods after the devastation of the world under thr conditions of a…
You misunderstand: the overall trend of deaths around the globe due to armed conflict.
About Europe, I said I wouldn't argue because I don't have the knowledge to assess those claims. Just saying what is usually acknowledged by historians as the main cause.
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#57Few know this: The United States currently spends more money per capita on socialized medicine than any other country except Norway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... In fact, the US spends more on socialized medicine than Japan, the UK and Finland spend in total , private and public spending. The US healthcare system is totally out of control. Nothing will fix it until there is a collap…
Wow, I'm surprised. So doctors/hospitals are extremely expensive in USA? What is spend monthly very roughly on health care in USA (if you're have one)? I'm originally from Germany and I always assumed we pay more for health care generally.
One aspect that makes care in the US cost more is our culture of being highly litigious. We seem to believe that if doctors make honest mistakes, it entitles the patient or their heirs to a large settlement. So doctors/hospitals need expensive malpractice insurance and that cost gets bundled in with the cost of care. To add to that, settlements encompass both medical costs and compensation for pain and suffering, which is usually a multiple of the medical costs. So the cost of lawsuits increases the cost of care which, in turn, increases the size of settlements which, in turn, increases the cost of malpractice insurance which increases the cost of care. It's a feedback loop.
It's not the only reason why our health care costs are spiraling out of control, but it is a reason that will naturally continue to increase over time unless we cap malpractice claims.
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#58Isn't that a given? I mean, do people not realize that the money has to come from somewhere? Of course it's going to be insanely expensive to insure everybody. Edit: I'm not arguing against Single Payer, I'm just surprised that this is something so shocking an article was written (and then upvoted) about.
If you pay 200 dollars today per month for health insurance but instead have to pay 200 dollars in extra taxes tomorrow for health insurance, what difference does it make?
Can you name an Obamacare-compliant plan (even just bronze) with a total (unsubsidized) $200 premium for the median or mean adult? One?
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#59This headline is really misleading and clickbaity. It makes it seem as if the state is facing a budget shortfall. The cost they are referring to is a hypothetical number crunching of possible future healthcare systems.
The state is facing a budget shortfall, per Brown administration estimates.
Re: Cost of universal health care in California bigger than state's budget
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is disputing that the US needs a military. What everyone is questioning (and rightly so) is whether the levels of investment are warranted. Especially when the US has such a pitiful social safety net compared to other Western countries. And let's be serious here. The rest of the world has done more to save the world from fascism and communism than the US has. And entrepreneurship has done far more for innovati…
The other western nations can afford to spend more on their safety net because of the military strength of america and the protection it provides against foreign invaders. America defeated japan essentially by itself while providing enough food and supplied to keep the russian army alive while also providing the majority of the military strength to the western front, essentially being the primary factor in the defeat…
> America defeated japan essentially by itself while providing enough food and supplied to keep the russian army alive while also providing the majority of the military strength to the western front, essentially being the primary factor in the defeat of fascism.
Where to start? The US did most of the work in beating Japan but they also got a lot of help from Russia toward the end. Once Japan had lost Manchuria to the Russians they gave up on a conditional surrender, they had nothing to bargain for.
And the primary factor in defeating fascism? If it wasn't for the British holding out in the west that front would have been lost before you guys even got involved. But more importantly on the Eastern front, the tide had already turned before lend lease to Russia made any difference. It sped the war up but it didn't decide it.