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Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

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Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#21
I went to Stonington last fall with my family. It's a beautiful and interesting place. We were fortunate to rent from a lifelong local and tour with a retired oil industry scientist and learned about a lot of this while there.

The locals are very proud of the lobster industry and efforts to regulate it pragmatically but also humble and understanding that it could disappear quickly if the overall ecology changes and especially if the water temperature sweet spot continues moving north.

There is concern for the economic prospects of those who leave school early or skip college to take fishing jobs young and may not be prepared for much else if the fishing goes away.

I thought they said many lobster boat captains made more like double the article's stated $45k; of course, that's only for the owner/operator. It's no desk job, for sure: those guys are out on the water before sunrise every day (except during thunderstorms) and it is cold out there. They do wrap up pretty early in the afternoon.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#22

I'm in the middle of reading Owning Our Future: The Emerging Ownership Revolution by Marjorie Kelly, which talks extensively about Maine lobster fishery rights. Along the sensitive areas of the coast, only owner-operated boats are allowed to fish, and these people must all have certified lobster fishing licenses. Their licensure also gives them voting rights around regulations for lobstering- in a sense, they own the…

>That the right to make a living comes before the right to make a killing. That fairness for the many is more important than maximizing for the few.

OK, but that's not really a full accounting of the tradeoff being made. Preventing "outside" or "non-local" fishing does have the advantage of privileging local stakeholders over remote capitalists - but it also privileges local stakeholders over remote _customers_. If economies of scale allow a commercial fishing operation to cut final prices by 10%, then on the margin you're going to see about 10% more lobsters being sold, which means that 10% more people get to eat lobster than would be able to do so under this regime.

And maybe that's fine! I'm not saying we shouldn't make this tradeoff. But consumer surplus is generally ignored in this kind of calculation, as if the value of the lobsters were a zero-sum game in which we split things up between Small Local Good Guys and Rapaciously Greedy Outside Capitalists, and that doesn't tell the whole story.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#23
post #17
post #2

I for one will do my part to help pick up the slack in demand. While the wholesale price has fluctuated, has there been much change in retail/restaurant lobster prices? I certainly don't see restaurants near me lowering the price of a lobster roll. If anything, looks like Old Port Lobster Shack in Redwood City increased theirs judging by what Google shows in their menu listing for a "Maine Lobster Roll" ($18.75) vs.…

Some of the New England area McDonalds sell Lobster rolls: https://newengland.com/today/travel/new-england/places-to-ea... No idea if they are any good, but they are $8.

They're apparently pretty bad. From what I've seen they're mostly a pre-frozen mush mixed in with lots of lettuce.

Lobster rolls are really pretty simple. But they need to be fresh lobster and very little else--which obviously isn't a good match for McDonalds style prep. The good news is that means they're very easy to make at home and many places that sell lobster will even boil them for you.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#24
post #17
post #2

I for one will do my part to help pick up the slack in demand. While the wholesale price has fluctuated, has there been much change in retail/restaurant lobster prices? I certainly don't see restaurants near me lowering the price of a lobster roll. If anything, looks like Old Port Lobster Shack in Redwood City increased theirs judging by what Google shows in their menu listing for a "Maine Lobster Roll" ($18.75) vs.…

Some of the New England area McDonalds sell Lobster rolls: https://newengland.com/today/travel/new-england/places-to-ea... No idea if they are any good, but they are $8.

Au Bon Pain used to in New England as well.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#25
I live in Maine.

So far this year in Maine, the price is about 2x what it normally goes for. Locals say it's because there's such strong overseas demand (China, etc). The average price of a lobster roll I'd say is around $18.

Contrary to what the article says "it's not making anybody rich" I can tell you the lobstermen who typically sell lobster for $2/lb off the dock are very happy with $4/lb. A friend on a very good day will catch 2,000 pounds, so the extra margin this year is welcomed.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#26
post #21

I went to Stonington last fall with my family. It's a beautiful and interesting place. We were fortunate to rent from a lifelong local and tour with a retired oil industry scientist and learned about a lot of this while there. The locals are very proud of the lobster industry and efforts to regulate it pragmatically but also humble and understanding that it could disappear quickly if the overall ecology changes and e…

Yup - in addition, many take the winter off. It's hard work during the peak times of year, but I'd compare it to the schedule of a school teacher (~3 month break).

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#27
post #21

I went to Stonington last fall with my family. It's a beautiful and interesting place. We were fortunate to rent from a lifelong local and tour with a retired oil industry scientist and learned about a lot of this while there. The locals are very proud of the lobster industry and efforts to regulate it pragmatically but also humble and understanding that it could disappear quickly if the overall ecology changes and e…

A lot of the Northeast coastline acts like this from New York to Maine. You have to remember too that this area has a long and firm understanding of what overfishing does (Nantucket, whaling industry) and chose to try and find the most stable route. Most of that area's income is export of fishing and tourism from people from elsewhere coming to visit the beach. I grew up in this area and you are definitely brought up being very mindful of it.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#28

I'm in the middle of reading Owning Our Future: The Emerging Ownership Revolution by Marjorie Kelly, which talks extensively about Maine lobster fishery rights. Along the sensitive areas of the coast, only owner-operated boats are allowed to fish, and these people must all have certified lobster fishing licenses. Their licensure also gives them voting rights around regulations for lobstering- in a sense, they own the…

> Kelly argues that this ownership of the lobstering commons, in a cooperative-like structure, leads to greater sustainability.

>> Large corporate boats can operate only in designated areas. Instead of permitting limitless liberty to absentee owners for the seeking of wealth -- by hired hands indifferent to local custom -- Maine set spinning a new governing pattern…. That the right to make a living comes before the right to make a killing. That fairness for the many is more important than maximizing for the few. That sustaining the prosperity of larger living systems, both human and wild, is the root condition for the flourishing of all.

At least insofar as Kelly's argument pertains to the management of fisheries and other commons, it is—economically speaking—more wrong than right.

A tragedy of the commons can be avoided in several ways, and none of them has much to do with putting "fairness for the many" ahead of "maximizing for the few". Indeed, a tragedy of the commons arises only when "the many" have unrestricted access to a scarce resource, and proceed to exploit it in an unsustainable way, due to the strategic nature of the situation.

Kelly would have you think otherwise, but "large corporate boats" are not the root cause of overfishing; the root cause is the desire on the part of each fisherman in an unregulated commoms to haul in the biggest catch he can before someone beats him to it. So aside from imposing regulation, another way to prevent a tragedy of the commons is to get rid of the commons: grant exclusive use of the former commons to a single party, who then has an incentive for good stewardship.

And quite contrary to Kelly's characterization of it, Maine's solution to managing its lobster rights can be seen as an instance of favoring the few over the many: lobstering was restricted to a relative few legally priveledged parties, few enough to make coordinating sustainable lobstering practices feasible. As is often the case when the law arbitrarily privileges some parties over others, there is an overlooked harm here, suffered by would-be lobstermen that the rules say cannot be.

So it seems to me that Kelly's words express her worldview and her somewhat misplaced good intentions—it is the curse of the economically uninformed that their good intentions will often lead them to a destination they didn't seek—but nothing more.

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#29
I remember reading about how abundant lobsters were on a historical plaque in Cape Breton. From travel Canada - "There was a time when these crustaceans were so plentiful and underappreciated that only the poorest children took lobster sandwiches in their lunches while the rich kids ate bologna." http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/27/learning-about-lobster-...

Re: Maine Is Drowning in Lobsters

#30

I'm in the middle of reading Owning Our Future: The Emerging Ownership Revolution by Marjorie Kelly, which talks extensively about Maine lobster fishery rights. Along the sensitive areas of the coast, only owner-operated boats are allowed to fish, and these people must all have certified lobster fishing licenses. Their licensure also gives them voting rights around regulations for lobstering- in a sense, they own the…

>That the right to make a living comes before the right to make a killing. That fairness for the many is more important than maximizing for the few. OK, but that's not really a full accounting of the tradeoff being made. Preventing "outside" or "non-local" fishing does have the advantage of privileging local stakeholders over remote capitalists - but it also privileges local stakeholders over remote _customers_. If e…

Efficiency of scale does not increase the carrying capacity of the local areas. Further prices are mostly dictated by availability not operations costs. So, maximizing the average catch size long term is vastly more important than minimizing operating costs.
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