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We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

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Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#161

Post by jancsika »

ue_ wrote: post #127
jancsika wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be specific-- the current choice is between well-understood, scalable, battle-tested centralized designs and half-baked, work-in-progress, decentralized designs that don't work very well. Example-- building a centralized Facebook replacement is doable. Some idealistic developer can sit down one summer, break the problem into little pieces and iterate on it. If enough other developers and investors get interested,…

Mastodon, which is decentralised, looks like it's gaining traction, and I find it very easy to use.

Ok.

So what will happen that drives the adoption to scale? In other words, what is the Mastodon's decentralized equivalent of investors throwing tons of money into marketing a centralized Facebook competitor? (I'm wrongly assuming that centralized means proprietary here, but I already made that wrong assumption above so I'll stick to it for the moment...)

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#162

Post by norea-armozel »

65827 wrote: post #8

The alternative increasingly is to simple delete facebook and live a more offline life. Starting to see it become more and more trendy nowadays, especially among teenagers. It's considered retro and hip to just schedule social time and disconnect completely

Even an online life without facebook and twitter is still fun. I think we're at a point where social networks are kind of pointless. At best, they're an easier to use alternative to the rolodex/black-book and email client. At worse, they make it harder to keep tabs on actual friends and family. So, I think everyone should weigh the effectiveness of their utilization of such products rather than being driven by fear of not being fashionable (leave that to the teenagers and celebrities).

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#163

Post by Sir_Substance »

skewart wrote: post #152
Sir_Substance wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not sure how much of a chance it would have of succeeding (I'd like it, but would anyone else?) It may, because it doesn't have to build it's own network effect, it can piggyback on emails existing userbase, which is basically everyone. I was talking with my housemate, we came up with the idea of a combination push and pull following mechanism. I can offer you the option to follow me by sending you a mail with t…

I like the header idea, and letting it market itself by way of invitation emails. Man, now I want to build this thing.

I'm going to start talking to a few people that might have good input and have a swing at writing a comprehensive draft specification, as best I can. Might not be a bad idea to have a proof-of-concept/reference implementation being developed alongside. Wanna take this to a different medium? Skype, wickr, steam, email?

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#164

Post by ue_ »

jancsika wrote: post #161
ue_ wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastodon, which is decentralised, looks like it's gaining traction, and I find it very easy to use.

Ok. So what will happen that drives the adoption to scale? In other words, what is the Mastodon's decentralized equivalent of investors throwing tons of money into marketing a centralized Facebook competitor? (I'm wrongly assuming that centralized means proprietary here, but I already made that wrong assumption above so I'll stick to it for the moment...)

Probably nothing except more people using it, it doesn't have any (to my knowledge) unique features that Twitter and co. don't, so I don't think people are going to move there; rather I expect the same users of Twitter to go there and keep both their accounts; a few people I know have deleted their Twitter accounts to switch full time to Mastodon, with varying degrees of success.

So I'll echo what was said elsewhere: people aren't going to move and abandon their old social networks, at least in my opinion.

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#165

Post by danellis »

Eerie wrote: post #90
danellis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is keeping in touch with friends in one place online wasting time?

Facebook is not about keeping in touch with friends, it is about selling your views to advertisers by maximizing the time you spend on the site. To keep in touch with friends you should use a fucking mail list.

> Facebook is not about keeping in touch with friends

You are mistaken. I use Facebook to keep in touch with friends. It's a pretty epic level of arrogance to try and tell me what I use it for.

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#166

Post by danellis »

type0 wrote: post #135
danellis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is keeping in touch with friends in one place online wasting time?

More like waisting your freedom, integrity, privacy etc...

Can you give me an example of how my freedom, integrity or privacy have been wasted? They're not taking anything I haven't willingly given them.

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#167

Post by jancsika »

ue_ wrote: post #164
jancsika wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. So what will happen that drives the adoption to scale? In other words, what is the Mastodon's decentralized equivalent of investors throwing tons of money into marketing a centralized Facebook competitor? (I'm wrongly assuming that centralized means proprietary here, but I already made that wrong assumption above so I'll stick to it for the moment...)

Probably nothing except more people using it, it doesn't have any (to my knowledge) unique features that Twitter and co. don't, so I don't think people are going to move there; rather I expect the same users of Twitter to go there and keep both their accounts; a few people I know have deleted their Twitter accounts to switch full time to Mastodon, with varying degrees of success. So I'll echo what was said elsewhere:…

If we're going to build things without any likelihood of scaling them to replace centralized services, we'd be much better off spending the time on the UX side rather than the business logic side.

I'd much rather play around with some slick, futuristic-looking UI with stop-gap business logic behind it just to garner an idea of what would be possible if we had better decentralized platforms. How about a nice simple interface to choose N trusted friends to help me archive my posts? How about simulating a ransomware attack, then leveraging M/N friends to set up the account on a new device and having the system estimate how many posts the ransomware could access? Actually how about one that replaces passwords with M/N friends?

I'm probably being unnecessarily conservative in my ideas because I'm still stuck on our current technological limitations. The point is that if all the "alternatives" developers had been doing stuff like that instead of ineffectual Facebook/Twitter clones, there would probably be a lot more value in all that effort since the Snowden leaks.

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#168

Post by type0 »

danellis wrote: post #166
type0 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like waisting your freedom, integrity, privacy etc...

Can you give me an example of how my freedom, integrity or privacy have been wasted? They're not taking anything I haven't willingly given them.

How do you know, if the latest reports is to go by they are buying personal information from third parties in order to construct better dossiers.

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#169

Post by mattbgates »

hdhzy wrote: post #4
mattbgates wrote: post #2

Google tried and failed. There are alternatives in other countries.. V Kontakte and odnoklassniki for Russia, WeChat and Qzone for China, though other countries other than those two are using what Americans use. There are a few other things like Snapchat and Kik that teenagers are using. Basically, if you think about the time you were a teenager: your parents are old. If they are using Facebook, than Facebook must no…

> As a web app developer, I keep an eye on those failed or lesser known products from Facebook and Google Could you provide an example or two? I wonder if you mean something like Buzz and Reader or something completely different.

Another thing that I think is becoming more apparent is the fact that despite the "privacy policies" of Facebook and Google, they will hand over information because they record it. With security and privacy a concern, more companies that advocate their stance and clearly state that they either do not keep the information or they do not share it is important and a big selling point, and will be in the future.

Look at ProtonMail. Secure email service. It is booming in business because people are seeking alternative to Gmail, Yahoo (notorious for data breaches), and Live mail.

So there is likely a huge market for this as more and more people become aware of just how much data about them is being sold to third-parties.

Re: We Need More Alternatives to Facebook

#170

Post by skewart »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #163
skewart wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the header idea, and letting it market itself by way of invitation emails. Man, now I want to build this thing.

I'm going to start talking to a few people that might have good input and have a swing at writing a comprehensive draft specification, as best I can. Might not be a bad idea to have a proof-of-concept/reference implementation being developed alongside. Wanna take this to a different medium? Skype, wickr, steam, email?

Sounds good! You can reach me at hn_skewart@yahoo.com.
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