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Google in, Google out

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Re: Google in, Google out

#91

Post by andrenotgiant »

The thing that scares me the most about all the data I give to Google is not that I am putting lots of trust in present-Google. It's that I am also putting lots of trust in FUTURE-Google.

So far, history has shown that even the most dominant tech companies can see their power wane.

Imagine you are a VP at Google, and after a year of revenue shrinkage you are being pressured to get "creative" about new sources of revenue... You have everyone's ENTIRE history of data. At one point the "need for revenue" will outweigh the "desire to respect people's privacy."

Re: Google in, Google out

#92

Post by euyyn »

pawadu wrote: post #10
Mathnerd314 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more of a general Luddite / anti-tech paradigm. Historically, strange things were dangerous and/or poisonous. Tech people probably recognize these devices from science fiction books / movies / stories, so they don't get scared, but the rest of the world has no context to place them in and hence treats them like unexploded ordnance.

Yes, but there are two problems with this particular company: 1. they have grown this mentality where they gather any data they can get their hands on - apologize only when/if caught red handed. (remember google street car password gathering?). 2. the more you use their services the more dependent you become. but google have shown zero care for individual consumers. (who do you call if gmail craps out on you?)

> remember google street car password gathering?

What? Wasn't that "SSID gathering", as in "the name you give your WiFi network, which is then visible to anyone that passes by"? How could a streetview car gather passwords?

Re: Google in, Google out

#93

Post by Analemma_ »

rahoulb wrote: post #31
megablast wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On somehow related note uber's location tracking when app is not used without an opt out option is the biggest wtf so far for me This is not true, at least for the iPhone.

Uber's location settings on iPhone are "Never" (and the app stops working) or "Always". They removed the "when app is in use" option a few months ago because ... not really sure.

I think Uber is on Apple's shit-list ever since the device ID tracking incident where Cook dressed down Kalanick directly. I imagine their app updates get extra scrutiny and probably something like this would be caught and denied.

Re: Google in, Google out

#94

Post by giobox »

buro9 wrote: post #11

> They don’t just want to remake the world in their image. They want to remake our individual lives. Each Stack — bar Facebook, for now — offers the same awkward bargain: commit wholly & wholeheartedly to our ecosystem, and we will better your life. And it just might work, if any of the newer Google experiences worked on all Google accounts. My experience as a Google Apps / G Suite user, is that few to none of the ne…

> "One account, all of Google", not if the account isn't a Gmail account.

Having recently been burned by this, I can wholeheartedly agree. The list of features that don't work if your Google account is not "@gmail.com" has caught me out so many times. The problem is even worse if you are an Android user and have a bunch of app purchases tied to a non gmail google account - as I recently discovered when trying to add my old Google Apps (custom domain name) based Google account to our Google play family plan.

The lack of documentation on what works/doesn't work is staggering as well.

Re: Google in, Google out

#95

Post by scholia »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #90
scholia wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huge companies have the money to coast by in mediocrity for years, and can simply buy assets to fill in gaps in their product line. True, though IBM may now have spent too long coasting by in mediocrity...

I don't know, Watson is actually one of the most publicly-recognized names in the AI game. If they leverage that correctly, there's a lot of opportunities there. Especially since most people who want to use AI would view Google as a competitor because of the number of services it operates, and IBM is more likely to support someone's desire for on-premises solutions. (The on-site enterprise solutions Google had for se…

Watson is actually the most heavily-advertized name in the AI game. It's invisible in IBM's financial results, which have now shown declines in turnover for 20 quarters in a row.

Re: Google in, Google out

#96

Post by Veratyr »

andrenotgiant wrote: post #91

The thing that scares me the most about all the data I give to Google is not that I am putting lots of trust in present-Google. It's that I am also putting lots of trust in FUTURE-Google. So far, history has shown that even the most dominant tech companies can see their power wane. Imagine you are a VP at Google, and after a year of revenue shrinkage you are being pressured to get "creative" about new sources of reve…

That "desire to respect people's privacy" isn't just some form of benevolent corporate altruism though, it's also a legal agreement between Google and its users and something that's closely watched by regulators around the world.

It's hard to see because in America there are basically no laws regarding privacy but around Europe in particular, regulators have power and use it. See the "right to be forgotten" laws which were forced on Google as an example.

That's not to say that Google can't do things with your data later but it will need your consent and regulators will be paying close attention.

Re: Google in, Google out

#97

Post by Veratyr »

ghughes wrote: post #85
hagakure0c wrote: post #61

What we need more of is something like the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) (Regulation (EU) 2016/679). Right now, Google, Facebook et al are luring their users deeper and deeper into their ecosystem by promising them a better future, which will never happen, the only thing that is happening are consumers handing over more of their personal data hoping tech will make good on that promise. https://en.wikipedi…

The maximum penalty for violating the GDPR is 4% of worldwide turnover. Possibly stupid question: I keep hearing that this is considered a "high" penalty, but if you're Google or Facebook and this (or any) regulation substantially threatens your bottom line to the tune of more than 4%, wouldn't you just eat it like a tax?

The maximum current penalty is 4% of worldwide turnover. I imagine that if it becomes clear that isn't enough to force compliance, legislation can be passed to raise the penalty.

Re: Google in, Google out

#98

Post by disconnected »

andrenotgiant wrote: post #91

The thing that scares me the most about all the data I give to Google is not that I am putting lots of trust in present-Google. It's that I am also putting lots of trust in FUTURE-Google. So far, history has shown that even the most dominant tech companies can see their power wane. Imagine you are a VP at Google, and after a year of revenue shrinkage you are being pressured to get "creative" about new sources of reve…

Lots of doomsday scenarios can happen.

Consider also that, as dominant companies see their revenue slip, they start cutting corners and get complacent with security.

Yahoo is the prime example, I think. It was one of the giants of the early web. Then they started losing relevance, hit rock bottom, started cutting corners and as a result 500+ million users had their account details leaked by hackers.

Another doomsday scenario is Google being bought by or merged with a competitor that doesn't give a shit about your privacy or your data.

So this entity gobbles up Google's data, sets fire to their privacy agreement (which they will pretend they no longer have to honour because they aren't Google) then pimps you to the highest bidder.

Bottom line is, we're screwed.

Re: Google in, Google out

#99

Post by ocdtrekkie »

aiiane wrote: post #83
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that if you opt out of Google keeping this history, I believe Google still keeps all your voice recordings, you just lose the ability to review and "delete" them, and they aren't tied to your account anymore. This is one of the crazier notions I've seen in a privacy dark pattern: "Let us track you or we'll keep your data forever".

Source?

Google.

"When Voice & Audio Activity is off, voice inputs won't be saved to your Google Account, even if you're signed in. Instead, they may only be saved using anonymous identifiers."

https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/6030020?p=accoun...

Ergo, Google is going to collect your voice data no matter what you do, the only question is whether or not it's connected to your account, where you can manually go in and delete it.

Re: Google in, Google out

#100

Post by andrenotgiant »

Veratyr wrote: post #96
andrenotgiant wrote: post #91

The thing that scares me the most about all the data I give to Google is not that I am putting lots of trust in present-Google. It's that I am also putting lots of trust in FUTURE-Google. So far, history has shown that even the most dominant tech companies can see their power wane. Imagine you are a VP at Google, and after a year of revenue shrinkage you are being pressured to get "creative" about new sources of reve…

That "desire to respect people's privacy" isn't just some form of benevolent corporate altruism though, it's also a legal agreement between Google and its users and something that's closely watched by regulators around the world. It's hard to see because in America there are basically no laws regarding privacy but around Europe in particular, regulators have power and use it. See the "right to be forgotten" laws whic…

That's a good point, I have zero understanding of how privacy laws and Google's own TOS limit what they can do with old data.

To clarify, though, I'm not talking about Google straight-up selling my data, I'm talking about all the creepy in-between things like:

- parsing out the fees I pay from my financial transaction emails and selling me in an "audience" to competing banks.

- Parsing my e-commerce Return confirmations and selling it as an "ecommerce credit score" to ecommerce sites.

- Monitoring brand mentions on Google Home and selling me in an audience to advertisers.

- Selling my contact information to sites I thought I was just browsing "anonymously"

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