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Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

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Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#81

Post by Xoros »

qzervaas wrote: post #5
Xoros wrote: post #2

I think the term "consumer base" is not heartless but in fact pretty accurate. Why not spending the probably huge amount of money in a cure instead of monitoring devices ? Well, because why kill the Golden Egg Goose ? Millions of people who have to take pills every day are good recurent money. If you cure them, no more cash. (Well it's the middle of the night, I can't sleep and fill a little bit bitter...) One more t…

Agreed about private companies and collecting of data, but in the case of Apple, none of your HealthKit data is transmitted (it's all stored on your iPhone and/or Apple Watch). Any app that reads/writes HealthKit data is required to provide a privacy policy before it passes App Store approval. Additionally, apps can only access that data after a full-screen permissions screen is displayed, and the user manually toggl…

Didn't knew about that. If true (and I trust you on this one) that's a little relief.

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#83

Post by Xoros »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #9
Xoros wrote: post #2

I think the term "consumer base" is not heartless but in fact pretty accurate. Why not spending the probably huge amount of money in a cure instead of monitoring devices ? Well, because why kill the Golden Egg Goose ? Millions of people who have to take pills every day are good recurent money. If you cure them, no more cash. (Well it's the middle of the night, I can't sleep and fill a little bit bitter...) One more t…

I think this idea is pretty odd. If someone had a cure for diabetes, you'd bet they'd charge an arm and a leg for it. The patents alone would be incredibly valuable. From a non-monetary standpoint, dehumanizing companies is always a bit frustrating. They consist of people, like you and me. Most people aren't sociopaths and the idea that business leaders are entirely sociopathic is worth challenging. I don't think mos…

I never said someone found it and is hiding it. I'm just a bit sad that there's probably more money that goes in treatment than in cure research.

It's economically understandable but humanly sad.

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#84

Post by xxs »

manmal wrote: post #8
highd wrote: post #3

Research labs have been trying this for years with every spectroscopy known to man - the signal is just too weak. I don't see any reason to think Apple has figured something out that labs of optics experts can't do on the benchtop.

Just consider Apple as yet another lab of optics experts, but with 100x the funding, 10y of material science advancements, and years instead of months of dedicated effort. It's not that hard to believe that this team could finally succeed.

"Big Pharma" has been trying that for decades. There are rather big companies involved. Find any reference about the "100x funding".

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#85

Post by Xoros »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #18
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true if a one-off sale of the cure is significantly more profitable than a reliable income stream from products that help manage the disease without curing it. For that to be true the cure would have to be more expensive than management by at least an order of magnitude - assuming monthly refills for management and an annual reporting cycle - but still not so expensive that it became unaffordable.

Can someone provide links to examples of companies withholding cures in exchange for profit? If not, the idea of this is nothing but conspiratorial. If it's true, though, it's worth knowing.

My original statement was about how much money goes in treatment research vs in cure research. Not about some conspiracy :-)

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#86

Post by zippergz »

acoster wrote: post #51
templaedhel wrote: post #6

As a type 1 diabetic I'm super excited to see apple working in this space, even if they're focusing it on type 2 to start (a logical move, considering there is something like 30x more type 2 diabetics in the US). I think making it easier to track glucose levels in real time is the number one thing that can be done to improve quality of life for both types of diabetics. The "CGM" (continuous glucose monitor) has reall…

My partner is type 1 diabetic, and CGMs were a game changer for her (they started rolling out in Switzerland last year). She's been using the FreeStyle Libre ( https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/ ), which uses NFC and on select markets has an Android app available, but here we still have to use the handheld reader.

The Libre only gives you a reading when you manually check it, right? Or did I misunderstand that? I wouldn't want to lose the low/high/rate of change alerts the Dexcom gives. Even if you're sleeping, it'll wake you up if the blood sugar starts getting low.

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#87

Post by mtw »

I have a Garmin right now. The heart rate monitor gives more reliable readings, the battery is better etc.

If apple makes an Apple Watch 3 with an optional blood glucose monitoring band, I'd switch back though!

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#88

Post by Kluny »

analog31 wrote: post #70
highd wrote: post #3

Research labs have been trying this for years with every spectroscopy known to man - the signal is just too weak. I don't see any reason to think Apple has figured something out that labs of optics experts can't do on the benchtop.

Indeed, I design similar equipment for industrial use. Non invasive blood glucose has been a holy grail of analytical technology for decades. Lots of smart people have gone bankrupt trying to solve this problem. The sensors are probably good enough already. Algorithms for sorting out massive libraries of spectral data exist. It's a hard problem. That's not saying Apple doesn't stand a chance, but that they're enterin…

That is supposed to be Apple's strength though, isn't it? They never do anything first, they just do it right first.

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#89

Post by coldtea »

nabla9 wrote: post #42

> I'm excited to see where it goes. BREAKING NEWS FROM THE FUTURE (Reuters): Hundreds of thousands Apple users die within hours after IoT glucose measurement + insulin pump device overdoses insulin during WannaDie cyberattack. Apple urges all surviving users to update the system immediately. Surviving users and family members of deceased will get 10 year full Apple subscription and special $20,000 memorial gift card…

Well, if the issue is some "cyberattack", then consider how many Android users would have died...

If anything, here's where the "walled garden", signed and sandboxed, etc nature of App Store makes much sense...

Re: Apple Monitoring Blood Glucose

#90

Post by super_mario »

cperciva wrote: post #12

Apple appears to be working on blood glucose monitoring as a way to address Type 2 Diabetes. Either the article is very wrong, or Apple is doing something very cute here. Type 2 diabetics do check their blood glucose -- occasionally. For non-insulin-using diabetics (aka. most type 2s) medical plans typically cover less than one test per day, because the evidence is that testing more frequently doesn't accomplish anyt…

This is analysis show real lack of imagination. Continuous glucose monitoring is extremely useful, even for pre-diabetics, let alone type 1 or type 2 diabetics. It does provide actionable information. Action isn't just inject some insulin (even though type 2 diabetics eventually go on insulin). Action can be don't eat. Or action can be go for a run/cycle etc. Or action can be adjust your medicine dose. Or drink a lot of water, or any other of the things available to immediately lower or increase your blood sugar.

High glucose doesn't have many symptoms unless it is ridiculously high. If you have blurred vision, hot flashes etc, then it's really really high. But there are things you can do before it gets that high. And knowing you are trending in that direction is useful. Going for a long walk can help. Going for an hour or two bike ride can lower your sugar below normal.

On the other extreme, if you just changed your medicine regimen (higher dose or doctor put you on new kind of medicine that works better for you), you are at risk of lowering your glucose too much. Esp. dangerous for medicine taken before going to bed. Recognizing low glucose is much easier (shaking, dizziness) but not when you are sleeping. Being alerted if you are trending below normal and keeping some candy next to you is always wise.

Continuous monitoring helps in all these scenarios.

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