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Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

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Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#51

In 2016 the US was still vulnerable to a Kardashian style PR stunt attack. Trump performed this attack over and over again and garnered an estimated $2B of free advertising from it. Trump used Twitter to do this, but he could have used other social media. Trump's tweets were not newsworthy because Twitter routed them to millions of people but because large media firms wanted to monetize the hysteria created by the tw…

> In 2016 the US was still vulnerable to a Kardashian style PR stunt attack. Trump performed this attack over and over again and garnered an estimated $2B of free advertising from it.

This hits the nail on the head. Late stage capitalism has completely fused media, news, and entertainment. This means that any person or organization who manages to "hack" the news cycle (i.e. finds a way to be in the spotlight on a very regular basis) can reap great profits. Like a presidency.

I don't agree that he could have used any other social media to the same effect. Information propagates and decays on Twitter much, much faster than on other mainstream platforms: if I post something, everyone who follows me sees it right away, and very few tweets are seen a few days after they have been posted. No other mainstream social network is like this. These properties have led to Twitter becoming the new AP stream for journalists, aka the entry point to the news cycle. If you want to dominate the news cycle, dominate Twitter - be it with racist tweets or asking for free chicken nuggets.

Twitter as a media apparatus has naturally played a great part in electing Trump. The Twitter leadership isn't composed of economists or political scientists or sociologists, so of course this kind of stuff lies completely outside of their concern (unless it brings good PR, like it does now). Same goes for Facebook, although the role it plays in the equation is different.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#52

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

Your emotional reaction to the quote has nothing to do with what he's talking about. Hes not talking about censorship or one side winning. He's saying he was hoping political wisdom would be gained from the free exchange of ideas, trump may be smart but he's certainly not wise.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#53

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

The quote is 158 characters long. Maybe it lacks nuance.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#54
post #21

AKA: > Twitter co-founder: I'm sorry we didn't use our platform to silence an opposing view point. Shame. Silencing someone else because you disagree makes you many, many times worse than them. Sunlight and exposure is the best disinfectant, not this play.

Hey, if you want to legalize government propaganda go ahead. It's pretty clear sunlight is an ineffective disinfectant in that scenario.

Isn't government sanctioned propaganda already legal in most places? Or at least unpunished?

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#55

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

> I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account. Stop blocking spam, advertising, legalize government use of propaganda domestically, etc. No? Then clearly your position has an obvious flaw in that you have to censor certain classes of speech. All of those happen on Twitter.

There is a difference between a platform (be that a website, or a government) censoring speech, and individuals opting out of certain things.

If I choose, I can view ads and I can view spam. I choose not to, just as it's perfectly fine to not follow Donald Trump on Twitter. I am making the decision about what content I view.

An entity in power making that decision for me is censoring free speech. My choosing not to see things, is not.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#56
post #9

Somewhat concerning statements on their own. > “I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I'd like to see a more detailed look at why Twitter might not have been a good idea. I don't think that free, easy communication is a bad thing and I think it's powered an enormous chan…

> I'd like to see a more detailed look at why Twitter might not have been a good idea.

You've got the answer right in your post:

> I just think that Twitter is a bad way of communicating anything vaguely complex.

The medium is the message. Build a social network where the main mode of communication encouraged is short, eminently shareable quips, and the voices that dominate will be the ones like Donald Trump's.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#57

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

> I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place

If you value Liberalism, it's the actual ability to exchange information - independent of the ideas being shared - that makes the world a better place.

The problem is that this information may not be true, and even when it is true, people tend to dislike the 'exchange information and ideas' when they disagree with the information and ideas being exchanged. Williams says so himself:

> If it’s true that he wouldn’t be president if it weren’t for Twitter, then yeah, I’m sorry

Sorry for what? Launching a platform where one can instantly read a wide variety of ideas and where narratives can be challenged as quickly as they're spun? It's like apologizing for creating the printing press because Martin Luther used it to kick off The Reformation.

Anyone who uses Twitter has witnessed legitimate - thus credible - reporters and news outlets spread incorrect stories, only for Twitter to quickly call them out.

So while much of Twitter may be poison, it beats relying solely on biased websites - such as the Washington Post - for information.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#58

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

You conflate censoring ie. forcing people to shut up, and giving anyone a giant soapbox. One can regret doing the latter without suggesting doing the former.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#59

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

I read it very differently. To me it sounds like the base assumption was that the majority of ideas are worthwhile and not nefarious or damaging, and that he now feels that was wrong.

Anyone who has been a moderator on a public forum, let alone one as big as twitter, can quickly tell you that not all ideas are created equal.

I have said it before on this board of which is moderated, but if every single person spoke their mind the internet would be full of absolute garbage and hate, because those people tend to speak loudest and most often when given the chance.

To be clear I am not for censorship and I want to make sure there is a place for everyones legitimate views. But there is no sense in pretending free speech has to be a free for all. We can dismiss some things as objectively bad. Even a presidential debate has a moderator and there is an expected legitimacy to the discourse.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#60
post #30
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the quote is saying. First of all, the architecture of a service has important influence on the kind of speech that it will foster: for example, the 140 character limit insures that it's almost impossible to get a nuanced argument across. Second, the broadcasting model of twitter often leads to horrible dogpiles. I am a huge free speech advocate, and I don't like censorship but several key decisions a…

Evan's quote wasn't about Twitter's architecture though, it was about "speaking freely and exchanging information and ideas," which is the thing he's sorry about facilitating, because it lead to Trump. The parent post seems spot on, to me.

Yes, your parent misrepresented the quote which indeed was about "free exchange of ideas facilitating Trump", but then the co-founder misrepresented what twitter actually is and this is what parent wanted to point out, I think.

As a matter of fact, you can't express any serious idea in 140 characters. Twitter really is a tool for mobilizing and organizing mobs of people who are already somewhat familiar with and supportive of your ideas, which is exactly why all sorts of activists and politicians use it for their campaigns.

What made the presidential campaign on twitter look the way it did was not really deficit of censorship, but fighting a political battle on grounds where there is no space for actual exchange of ideas but only for appeals to emotions and prejudices, personal attacks and name calling.

The conclusion is: if you don't want populism to win, maybe you should be careful building such platforms. And twitter has been known to be conducive to ugly flamewars for years, go read about gamergate. Maybe parent thought that founders regret not the lack of control but the fact they built such a thing, but then it seems you are right that they actually don't.

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