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Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#11

Post by colordrops »

Fede_V wrote: post #8
broodbucket wrote: post #3

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

That's not what the quote is saying. First of all, the architecture of a service has important influence on the kind of speech that it will foster: for example, the 140 character limit insures that it's almost impossible to get a nuanced argument across. Second, the broadcasting model of twitter often leads to horrible dogpiles. I am a huge free speech advocate, and I don't like censorship but several key decisions a…

What exactly are you saying?

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#12

Post by yorwba »

IanCal wrote: post #9

Somewhat concerning statements on their own. > “I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I'd like to see a more detailed look at why Twitter might not have been a good idea. I don't think that free, easy communication is a bad thing and I think it's powered an enormous chan…

> I don't think that free, easy communication is a bad thing

It is neither good nor bad, just an amplifying medium for whatever someone chooses to use it for.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#13

Post by statictype »

broodbucket wrote: post #3

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

1. He didn't say that free speech and exchange of ideas prevented his side from winning

2. He didn't even say that free speech and exchange of ideas prevents the world from being a better place

He's noting that free speech and exchange of ideas isn't sufficient on its own.

(That was my takeaway at least)

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#14

Post by statictype »

broodbucket wrote: post #3

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

1. He didn't say that free speech and exchange of ideas prevented his side from winning

2. He didn't even say that free speech and exchange of ideas prevents the world from being a better place

He's noting that free speech and exchange of ideas isn't sufficient on its own.

(That was my takeaway at least)

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#15

Post by Fede_V »

colordrops wrote: post #11
Fede_V wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the quote is saying. First of all, the architecture of a service has important influence on the kind of speech that it will foster: for example, the 140 character limit insures that it's almost impossible to get a nuanced argument across. Second, the broadcasting model of twitter often leads to horrible dogpiles. I am a huge free speech advocate, and I don't like censorship but several key decisions a…

What exactly are you saying?

That Twitter, as it's currently designed, is an excellent platform for sharing cool links (science/ML twitter is fantastic), but it is downright deleterious for any subject where nuance is called for.

I think Twitter had a net negative effect on political discussion not because of free speech, but because it rewards bombastic language, point scoring, cheerleading and makes substantial arguments impossible.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#16

Post by IanCal »

Fede_V wrote: post #8
broodbucket wrote: post #3

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

That's not what the quote is saying. First of all, the architecture of a service has important influence on the kind of speech that it will foster: for example, the 140 character limit insures that it's almost impossible to get a nuanced argument across. Second, the broadcasting model of twitter often leads to horrible dogpiles. I am a huge free speech advocate, and I don't like censorship but several key decisions a…

Perhaps, but I think you're reading more from that comment than was actually in the article. I can find quotes about generally saying the internet is broken, and promoting medium, but not specifically addressing flaws in Twitter.

I think that is the real problem, but I'm hesitant to say that's what their argument really is unless there's some actual evidence. At best, it's not backed up properly in the posted article, to the point of (to me) being highly misleading if their problems are with the lack of freedom in Twitter for one.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#17

Post by duskwuff »

IanCal wrote: post #9

Somewhat concerning statements on their own. > “I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I'd like to see a more detailed look at why Twitter might not have been a good idea. I don't think that free, easy communication is a bad thing and I think it's powered an enormous chan…

I think the key word in that quote, which you've overlooked, is "automatically". Allowing free communication may be good... but it can't "automatically" make the world a better place on its own.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#18

Post by broodbucket »

Fede_V wrote: post #15
colordrops wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you saying?

That Twitter, as it's currently designed, is an excellent platform for sharing cool links (science/ML twitter is fantastic), but it is downright deleterious for any subject where nuance is called for. I think Twitter had a net negative effect on political discussion not because of free speech, but because it rewards bombastic language, point scoring, cheerleading and makes substantial arguments impossible.

Twitter is definitely terrible for discussion not just because of the character limit but also because of the echo chambers it creates. I follow a lot of people on both "sides" and they love to make fun of the other through the most low hanging fruit possible. Both sides attack people for liking (or not being totally opposed to) some ideas of the other side.

I don't think there's many popular forms of social media that actually have nuanced, reasonable political discussions though.

EDIT: the only one I really know of is /r/neutralpolitics.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#19

Post by broodbucket »

dtech wrote: post #10
broodbucket wrote: post #3

>“I thought once everybody could speak freely and exchange information and ideas, the world is automatically going to be a better place,” Williams told the Times. “I was wrong about that.” I despise this quote so much, and I'm far from a Trump supporter. If you need to censor speech in order for your side to win, maybe you have bigger issues than Trump's twitter account.

You're twisting his words, he doesn't say anything about censorship. He said that he hoped the technologic capabilities of Twitter would improve the world for the better and in his opinion they haven't. He doesn't say anything that thus people who didn't agree with him should be silenced...

If that is all he's saying I think it's pretty short-sighted. Surely Twitter has accomplished a lot of good.

Re: Twitter co-founder: I’m sorry if we made Trump’s presidency possible

#20

Post by grandalf »

In 2016 the US was still vulnerable to a Kardashian style PR stunt attack. Trump performed this attack over and over again and garnered an estimated $2B of free advertising from it.

Trump used Twitter to do this, but he could have used other social media. Trump's tweets were not newsworthy because Twitter routed them to millions of people but because large media firms wanted to monetize the hysteria created by the tweets so they had their newsrooms run coverage of each and every tweet.

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