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Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#181

Post by singlow »

coldtea wrote: post #162
cmurf wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad hominem attacks are considered logical fallacies only when they're used instead of a dismantling someone's arguments. If they're not making a sound argument at all, yet they continue to make it, there's no way to argue the argument, the problem is a character defect - so attacking the character of the person is logical in that case and accepted in debate. Not all people are good. And not all smart people argue log…

> Ad hominem attacks are considered logical fallacies only when they're used instead of a dismantling someone's arguments. Which is precisely the case here.

I don't think he is arguing against independence for publication. He is instead arguing against the app store restrictions on account that they are equivalent. It is not illogical to point out an hypocrasy if the point is that his own arguments should be more broadly applied. The tone was unnecessarily ad hominem but not the overall argument.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#182

Post by cramforce »

cramforce wrote: post #165

With respect to scrolling: We (AMP team) filed a bug with Apple about that (we didn't implement scrolling ourselves, just use a div with overflow). We asked to make the scroll inertia for that case the same as the normal scrolling. Apple's response was (surprisingly) to make the default scrolling like the overflow scrolling. So, with the next Safari release all pages will scroll like AMP pages. Hope Gruber is happy t…

On top of this: we currently have a team working to fix webkit bugs that are problematic for AMP. This, of course, will make webkit better for everyone.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#183

Post by macNchz »

colinbartlett wrote: post #21

If you hate AMP as much as I do, I highly recommend switching your mobile browser to DuckDuckGo. The results are as good as Google and no AMP.

I switched my phone to DDG a few months ago because I was sick of crappy AMP pages. I find the results to be decent for quick searches but not helpful for really researching something–which I'm okay with since I don't usually do heavy research on my phone and I can add a !g if I'm not getting what I need.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#185

Post by MBCook »

vesinisa wrote: post #163
MBCook wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See what I wrote here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14384560 You say it's been solving problems, but for me it's only been causing them. It's made it significantly harder to use Google search on iOS. Also the slow pages? Reader mode on safari has worked fantastically on them for years. Slow pages wasn't even a problem for me because of reader mode. Not only were they faster they were also easier to read becau…

> It's made it significantly harder to use Google search on iOS. Works well enough on Android Chrome. Irony is, AMP, Android, Chrome and Google Search are all Alphabet (Google) products. I am personally all for platform portability, but certainly it's been Apple who have been pushing for One Closed Ecosystem since the introduction of iPhone, and Apple users have been very happy about it and playing down the vendor lo…

> Now that there's a shard in the walled garden, another player seemingly using the very same tactics as Apple, it's frustrating to see the same users complain about how much it sucks to be disenfranchised from modern computing because they use a different vendor - only this time Apple is the "other" vendor.

I don't think they're actually are a lot of Apple fan is claiming that the one benevolent company should control everything as you posited earlier your post.

I'll also tell you this: I was an Apple user long ago. I would back to the platform in the early 2000's, years before the iPhone came out. I distinctly remember what it was like to be on the minority platform that no one bothered to support. In many ways, OS X is still like that today.

I don't think you'll get a bunch of people switching over to the "winning" side and claiming google is better just because it's "winning".

I see a lot of problems with what they're doing, outside of simple issues of my personal taste.

Also, you can complain about whatever you don't like about Apple, but they NEVER tried to break the web. If anything they did a huge service by making a browser that was not IE6 extremely important and drastically hastening the demise of flash.

Google can do whatever it wants on android, my problem is that they can use the web to force people into the rest of their ecosystem that's removing the one big open thing that made it possible to use Apple computers back in the "bad old days" of having a little software. By the mid to thousands people use the Internet enough that switching to a Mac wasn't a big deal because so much of what you wanted to do involve the web browser. If google "fixes" that, they now have a very heavy hand over all of computing .

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#186

Post by MBCook »

tedmiston wrote: post #143
MBCook wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the standard iOS gestures and works nearly everywhere. iOS is FULL of handy little things like that, but I'm not sure many of them are ever explained . You just have to stumble across it or read about it somewhere like reviews of the new versions of iOS. Did you know in mail (and many other places) you can swipe table rows left or right for quick actions? Marco Arment recently changed Overcast to make fea…

Another nice gesture that's lesser known is hold down on the left side of the screen in any app then drag to the right to open the app switcher.

That's one of the new force press gestures that came around in the 6S. It really is useful, but I'm having trouble getting over almost 10 years of muscle memory that no such gesture existed.

Plus it's a bit fiddly.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#187

Post by MBCook »

tyingq wrote: post #113
velobro wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Apple should make their own search engine...

I suppose Apple could modify Safari to skip through AMP pages and go to the original source.

That requires releasing new versions of iOS. Google can work around that way faster than Apple can try to play catch-up. It's a losing battle.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#188

Post by MBCook »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #178
MBCook wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the impulse, but so many security issues happen to people because they're tricked into running things… I can't help but think that this would cause a dramatic rise in the number of security issues on iOS.

Security isn't everything.

Remember what happened just over a week ago to the NHS and all sorts of other computers?

Security is becoming EXTREMELY important, although it was already pretty important.

Apples very strict (occasionally draconian) app model on iOS is one of the reasons it has so few problems with the software destroying the system or viruses or other such things. There's a reason Microsoft is eyeing it jealously for Windows. That kind of heavy sandboxing makes exploit much much more difficult.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#189

Post by theclaw »

Looks like Google have recently added a means of getting out of the AMP "jail" and arriving at the original source site by clicking a little link icon in that irritating header that constantly pops over content while scrolling.

This is very welcome. My biggest gripe with AMP was that there was no way out of it.

Re: Kill Google AMP before it kills the web

#190

Post by MBCook »

cramforce wrote: post #165

With respect to scrolling: We (AMP team) filed a bug with Apple about that (we didn't implement scrolling ourselves, just use a div with overflow). We asked to make the scroll inertia for that case the same as the normal scrolling. Apple's response was (surprisingly) to make the default scrolling like the overflow scrolling. So, with the next Safari release all pages will scroll like AMP pages. Hope Gruber is happy t…

The snark at the end seems very unwarranted.
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