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First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

fuchsiatalks.com

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Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#11

Post by tyingq »

cjbprime wrote: post #6
tyingq wrote: post #3

Saw this rant about Fuchsia on reddit that appears on the surface to make some good points: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles... Not my area of expertise for sure though. Any kernel dev types here had a chance to look at Fuchsia? Is the criticism warranted? Update: Fixed link to point at the right comment. Edit: Should have mentioned the tone is a bit over the top. More interested in the ac…

Can't tell which comment you mean, but if you mean the criticism that Dart is used as a userspace language, that's not related to the choice of kernel (which seems fine to me).

It wasn't that, no. Fixed the link...it is pointing to the right spot now.

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#12

Post by swetland »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #9
swetland wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest that it's possible we're using simple, but functional placeholder implementations of things so the entire system can boot and run, and then various parts of it can be worked on at various paces, in parallel, etc. Lot of moving parts in a kernel, or OS, and one could try to write all of them in their final form first and hope they all work together when done, or one could take a more incremental approach.…

(For context, swetland is currently the main contributer to Magenta, Fuchsia's kernel: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta/graphs/contributor... )

The stats are a little unfair there, as I've done a lot of rearranging and housecleaning, which tends to inflate github's scoreboards. I suspect more of my work is outside the kernel than in (driver model/hosting/managing, userspace core glue, etc), but certainly I'm to blame for a reasonable chunk of kernel code too.

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#13

Post by tyingq »

steveklabnik wrote: post #5
tyingq wrote: post #3

Saw this rant about Fuchsia on reddit that appears on the surface to make some good points: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles... Not my area of expertise for sure though. Any kernel dev types here had a chance to look at Fuchsia? Is the criticism warranted? Update: Fixed link to point at the right comment. Edit: Should have mentioned the tone is a bit over the top. More interested in the ac…

I don't see the rant; that's just the link to the whole discussion. Did you mean to link to a particular comment? I haven't followed Fuchsia that closely, but I was under the impression that the team consisted of some all-star kernel developers; former BeOS people for example?

Fixed the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles...

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#14

Post by theDoug »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #2

Not really any new information here. It's fun to speculate about what Fuchsia might become, but it's pretty clear Google's not ready to announce anything yet. The only reason we even know it exists is because they made the source code public.

Exactly this. And So fun to speculate on something far from its likely end goal or release state, because _only_ of who made it public.

A lot of cooks in the opinion kitchen looking out the window at wheat growing, pretending it’s already a baked cake, and of which they already dislike the taste.

(Disclosure: I work at Google, not on this.)

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#15

Post by CountSessine »

tyingq wrote: post #3

Saw this rant about Fuchsia on reddit that appears on the surface to make some good points: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles... Not my area of expertise for sure though. Any kernel dev types here had a chance to look at Fuchsia? Is the criticism warranted? Update: Fixed link to point at the right comment. Edit: Should have mentioned the tone is a bit over the top. More interested in the ac…

We all have bad days, but some of this rant is really toxic.

Dear god. I looked at the kernel and it's awful

Stuff real operating systems have solved decades ago

WTF?

This is hilarious. Did they decide to reinvent all the wheels badly just because someone at Google was bored?

The ex kernel developer in me feels insulted that a serious company would release something this immature

So, have they actually released Fuschia? I was under the impression that this was still being developed in the open until such time as it actually becomes a "real operating system"? And IMHO the world needs a good open-source microkernel OS; I'm ok if the scheduler is suboptimal on release - that can be fixed eventually. Linux will never be a microkernel OS, but Fuchsia can always be optimized. Performance-wise it just needs to be good-enough on release.

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#16

Post by drewg123 »

The first rule of almost any project at Google is not to talk about it. It the only job I've ever had where I could not tell my wife anything about my work, aside from how lunch was. My wife joked that Google was almost as paranoid as the DoD or NSA, and thought it was very presumptuous of them to force so much secrecy.

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#17

Post by Kenji »

tyingq wrote: post #3

Saw this rant about Fuchsia on reddit that appears on the surface to make some good points: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles... Not my area of expertise for sure though. Any kernel dev types here had a chance to look at Fuchsia? Is the criticism warranted? Update: Fixed link to point at the right comment. Edit: Should have mentioned the tone is a bit over the top. More interested in the ac…

>Their tlb shootdown is not only synchronous, but it only shoots one page at a time, synchronously.

QNX6.6 introduced this too (as a fix for a race condition that existed in QNX6.5 and lower) and it was a huge pain to get actual realtime inbetween the TLB flush storms. Like, this is a make-or-break issue right there. TLB flushes can easily eat 10% of all CPU cores if you start and end a process every second.

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#18

Post by potatolicious »

CountSessine wrote: post #15
tyingq wrote: post #3

Saw this rant about Fuchsia on reddit that appears on the surface to make some good points: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles... Not my area of expertise for sure though. Any kernel dev types here had a chance to look at Fuchsia? Is the criticism warranted? Update: Fixed link to point at the right comment. Edit: Should have mentioned the tone is a bit over the top. More interested in the ac…

We all have bad days, but some of this rant is really toxic. Dear god. I looked at the kernel and it's awful Stuff real operating systems have solved decades ago WTF? This is hilarious. Did they decide to reinvent all the wheels badly just because someone at Google was bored? The ex kernel developer in me feels insulted that a serious company would release something this immature So, have they actually released Fusch…

A quote that, while not automatically true, seems to apply to many situations:

"People who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty." - Richard Needham

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#19

Post by spun »

drewg123 wrote: post #16

The first rule of almost any project at Google is not to talk about it. It the only job I've ever had where I could not tell my wife anything about my work, aside from how lunch was. My wife joked that Google was almost as paranoid as the DoD or NSA, and thought it was very presumptuous of them to force so much secrecy.

I had the same experience at Amazon with their secret projects, including each iteration of their kindle fires

Re: First Rule of Google Fuchsia OS Is to Not to Talk About It

#20

Post by gwbas1c »

My guess is that some Google engineers started an OS project to scratch their own itch, or to test the waters on an anticipated business problem. Detailed speculation is probably useless at this point.

That being said, I really think the time is ripe for a new desktop OS. There's a lot of lessons from iOS and Android that just aren't showing up on Mac and Windows.

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