> "failsale" against "man-made disasters"
Nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool!
Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
11–20 of 46 posts
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#12The vault’s managers are now waiting to see if the extreme heat of this winter was a one-off or will be repeated or even exceeded as climate change heats the planet.
I really want to believe that this is an example of poor communication by the journalist as opposed to clueless passivity by administrators. Unfortunately, I suspect it's accurate.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#13>"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel." This story makes the design/managemen…
That and saving the seeds of flowering plants without preserving eggs of pollinating insects isn't very useful.
I remember hearing I think it was a Radiolab episode which talked of an instance where a lot pollination was done by humans, by hand, with paint brushes and pollen. It turned out that the humans were actually better at it than the insects, because they were more consistent. So the result was a crop that was larger than it would have been had insects done the pollinating.
It's kind of a "waste" of human effort to do manual pollination like that rather than having insects do it "for free", but in an emergency, if that's all you've got, then it can be done.
It also seems to me like this kind of work would be ripe for automation with robots or drones somewhere down the line if, say, most bees wound up dying out and humans were forced to pollinate by hand at a large scale.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#14It would be interesting to learn what mistakes were made on a process level here.
Were warnings from people who predicted flooding ignored for some reason, like warning of concerned NASA engineers about the safety of the Space Shuttle? Or did no one honestly predict flooding in a region covered by snow despite global warming?
There could be some valuable lessons here for participants in Long Now and similar projects.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#15Antarctica then?
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals.
I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for protecting biodiversity than for making weapon systems, but this outcome suggests to me that our institutional cooperation models of governance are not working well.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#16>"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel." This story makes the design/managemen…
That and saving the seeds of flowering plants without preserving eggs of pollinating insects isn't very useful.
Using drones to perform pollination would not be too difficult I wouldn't think...
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#17The vault’s managers are now waiting to see if the extreme heat of this winter was a one-off or will be repeated or even exceeded as climate change heats the planet. I really want to believe that this is an example of poor communication by the journalist as opposed to clueless passivity by administrators. Unfortunately, I suspect it's accurate.
Later on the article describes that they installed pumps and removed heat sources. Of course that doesn't solve the problem of operating without humans and without flooding, but I imagine getting funding for major changes is much easier once it's exceedingly clear that this wasn't a fluke.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#18Antarctica then?
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
That and saving the seeds of flowering plants without preserving eggs of pollinating insects isn't very useful.
Using drones to perform pollination would not be too difficult I wouldn't think...
Actually, why live at all? If there are no humans, then there's no need for food, problem solved.
Re: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
#20Antarctica then?
What's the point of putting it somewhere maximally inaccessible with lots of ice? I was never that sold on the idea of putting it on a coastal island to begin with. I realize they want somewhere cold but a large mountain cave seems a better bet. That's where we put things that are meant to withstand nuclear war or similarly drastic upheavals. I don't blame the organizers for that, it's a lot harder to raise money for…
Also, on any sane design, the entrance would be below the vault.