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Who Y Combinator Companies Want

blog.triplebyte.com

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#41
post #7

Slightly surprised -- and a little diappointed -- to see "academic programmer" as the least desirable archetype. Also, not sure these archetypes do a great job of capturing the process-oriented/results-oriented divide that shows up in the opening anecdote (and which I agree is quite real).

I've done hundreds of interviews, and for me I can usually tell that a candidate with a PhD and no real work experience will be amongst the worst pure coders I come across, so I think it's a fitting stereotype. I'm sure there are exceptions but it's pretty clearly a signal for me. But I never look at candidate's resumes before I interview them to avoid any biases, since the companies where I have interview ed for, for better or worse, they care more about the whiteboarding or architecture answers rather than work experience.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#42
post #7

Slightly surprised -- and a little diappointed -- to see "academic programmer" as the least desirable archetype. Also, not sure these archetypes do a great job of capturing the process-oriented/results-oriented divide that shows up in the opening anecdote (and which I agree is quite real).

From my experience that is generally because academic = not hacker. By not hacker I mean that they find it hard to slam something together quick and dirty.

My experience has been, if anything, more-or-less the opposite. The good academic programmers I've known have been very focussed on solving the problem at hand, perhaps without a particularly "engineered" feel to the code (relatively large functions, not necessarily a lot of exposed abstraction, etc.). It's a style I've got a fair bit of respect for, and absolutely would count as "hacker" (in a positive sense)

Pretty sure that's what Triplebyte's academic archetype is getting at. Also pointing in broadly the same direction:

http://yosefk.com/blog/why-bad-scientific-code-beats-code-fo...

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#43
post #13

I can tell you why there is discrimination against Enterprise programmers. Two reasons: Most people who have worked in an enterprise have had at least one bad experience with an incompetent programmer who was just a seat filler. That means that the enterprise isn't a good filter, and even worse, it means that even if you are good, you're willing to suffer working with incompetence. The other factor is that enterprise…

The enterprise filter in my experience gets stronger as the enterprise dev stays in that space.

As an example, a dev with say 4 years of experience overall that happens to be working at a bank who might have had some solid internship and side projects upon graduation won't be 'locked out' to the same degree as someone with 15 years at that same bank. Someone with 25 years at that bank who worked on very similar projects may be seen as unemployable by most startups.

That junior dev might not have any kind of preference or necessity for process, but just wound up at the bank after graduation. It's these devs that probably suffer.

The person who stayed 25 years (ageism aside) probably did so for a reason, and some will assume that the reason was process and predictability in their work. Someone that stayed for that long and didn't get bored is probably going to be passed over by most startups.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#44

Current enterprise programmer. Former startup employee here. I agree that it is quite different at startups. The startup environment felt basically a glorified college environment compared to the large company culture. With that said, I would image eventually all startups have to grow up and embrace enterprise-style processes. Facebook is the example that comes to mind. When they first started, the followed the "Move…

Funny, as going by many of their open source projects, I'd say "move slow and break things" could also suit them. ;)

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#45

If you want to work for a YC company apply directly to the YC company you want to work with. Say who you are, what you know and why you like this company. I also recommend not putting too much weight on arbitrary labels (trial and error programmer? child prodigy?) I've been a happy engineer with a YC company for close to three years now. I have led various teams and contributed to many aspect of the overall product d…

We're certainly not the only way to join a YC company, or any company, and nor would we claim to be. The specific reasons why you'd consider using Triplebyte are:

(1) Companies are unlikely to reply if you contact them directly because your resume isn't impressive. Our entire screening process is background blind and we've built up enough credibility with companies for them to interview you if you do well on our process, when they otherwise would have rejected you based on your background.

(2) Finding new company options that are are doing interesting work but you haven't heard about. We spend a lot of time finding and partnering with early stage startups that haven't become well known yet.

(3) Saving time in your job search by identifying which companies are looking for your specific set of skills. We have a lot of data about what the companies we work with are looking for and can reduce the number of interviews you do where it becomes clear early on that you're just not the type of engineer they're looking for (e.g. they ask you complex algorithm questions on a whiteboard when your strengths are building and scaling web applications).

We're focused on doing these things well and our process certainly isn't perfect. There will be times where we match you with a company and you weren't a fit or when we don't match you with a company and you might have been a fit. Achieving 100% accuracy in something as complicated as hiring is likely impossible but we believe our approach is still a lot better than the status quo of recruiters reading resumes and making gut calls on who gets through to an interview.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#46
post #43
post #13

I can tell you why there is discrimination against Enterprise programmers. Two reasons: Most people who have worked in an enterprise have had at least one bad experience with an incompetent programmer who was just a seat filler. That means that the enterprise isn't a good filter, and even worse, it means that even if you are good, you're willing to suffer working with incompetence. The other factor is that enterprise…

The enterprise filter in my experience gets stronger as the enterprise dev stays in that space. As an example, a dev with say 4 years of experience overall that happens to be working at a bank who might have had some solid internship and side projects upon graduation won't be 'locked out' to the same degree as someone with 15 years at that same bank. Someone with 25 years at that bank who worked on very similar proje…

It's interesting how many of these 15-25 year enterprise veterans actually want to entangle their career paths with young and "hip" startups? I'm sure some do, but I'd guess a low percentage. Obviously, it would be different if some of these veterans are the ones founding the startup. I'd also guess that in some niche fields, such as security, poaching of enterprise veterans is happening much more than the more "sexy" fields.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#47
post #36
post #13

I can tell you why there is discrimination against Enterprise programmers. Two reasons: Most people who have worked in an enterprise have had at least one bad experience with an incompetent programmer who was just a seat filler. That means that the enterprise isn't a good filter, and even worse, it means that even if you are good, you're willing to suffer working with incompetence. The other factor is that enterprise…

Interesting observations. As someone who came from an enterprise Java background and moved into a startup shop, it is tremendously dispiriting and disappointing to see so much disdain for people with backgrounds like mine. I wouldn't trade my enterprise experience for anything. It gave me a deep appreciation for the craft of software development, and an amazing introduction to complex, well-designed systems (not to m…

> With all due respect to the "move fast, break things" evident in many startups, it leaves behind a big technical mess for the people who help transition the company out of startup phases. I'd bet most would do well to incorporate a few more stodgy enterprise devs earlier in the process to help steer the software toward a sustainable path.

I agree to a point, and tried to address it above. It's a tradeoff -- do it right now for a big payoff later. However, you have to survive to the payoff. So maybe you spend a bunch of time doing it right, and then die when you haven't actually sold anything yet.

I'd rather have a company that made it to the "we have to clean up our technical debt" phase then building something beautiful that never sees the light of day.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enterprise filter in my experience gets stronger as the enterprise dev stays in that space. As an example, a dev with say 4 years of experience overall that happens to be working at a bank who might have had some solid internship and side projects upon graduation won't be 'locked out' to the same degree as someone with 15 years at that same bank. Someone with 25 years at that bank who worked on very similar proje…

It's interesting how many of these 15-25 year enterprise veterans actually want to entangle their career paths with young and "hip" startups? I'm sure some do, but I'd guess a low percentage. Obviously, it would be different if some of these veterans are the ones founding the startup. I'd also guess that in some niche fields, such as security, poaching of enterprise veterans is happening much more than the more "sexy…

In my experience it's not a high percentage, but enough numbers overall to see some enterprise veteran discrimination. It's often diagnosed as ageism, though I don't think that's the case as I do see several 40-50 somethings with more diverse backgrounds landing in startups without issue.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#49
post #2

Stockfighter.io ran into similar issues. The candidate that finished the competition we're far above average, but hiring companies still used the same filters and long timing on those candidates as for sketchy unsolicited resumes. I think the core issue is that hiring a bad programmer is so costly, and there are so many bad programmers in the hiring pool that companies tune their filters to avoid the worst, while thi…

How can bad programmers be improved into hirable ones?

Put them into a niche where they can be successful. Skill is secondary. What is really needed is a readiness to learn, an openness to new ideas (and old ones).

A great programmer in the wrong niche can destroy a project.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#50
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting observations. As someone who came from an enterprise Java background and moved into a startup shop, it is tremendously dispiriting and disappointing to see so much disdain for people with backgrounds like mine. I wouldn't trade my enterprise experience for anything. It gave me a deep appreciation for the craft of software development, and an amazing introduction to complex, well-designed systems (not to m…

> With all due respect to the "move fast, break things" evident in many startups, it leaves behind a big technical mess for the people who help transition the company out of startup phases. I'd bet most would do well to incorporate a few more stodgy enterprise devs earlier in the process to help steer the software toward a sustainable path. I agree to a point, and tried to address it above. It's a tradeoff -- do it r…

> I agree to a point, and tried to address it above. It's a tradeoff -- do it right now for a big payoff later. However, you have to survive to the payoff. So maybe you spend a bunch of time doing it right, and then die when you haven't actually sold anything yet.

There's a balance to be had, though. I've said it downthread but I'll only mention it again here because it's relevant - I'm a manager in the "enterprise" (or more accurately, I'm a bit more senior than that, but whatever). My perspective doesn't really fall to either extreme:

Coming out of the gate and addressing the unknown (to keep it reasonably similar to startups), I want to move fast, iterate, fail fast and other cliches. Eventually, though, if we're as smart as we think we are, the unknown shrinks within the scope of the problem we're trying to solve and we move to a more manageable pace - with process, standards and all of that. I don't see burn and churn as a long term strategy for my products or my people.

Say what you will about enterprise, but we can't be total idiots. There is complexity in what we do - many are managing projects or programs that would essentially be a startup's entire product. For every unicorn, there are likely thousands of startups that will not grow as large as a single enterprise product. (talking generally here)

I'm not saying we're better or anything, but I'd hope that an enterprise dev's resume doesn't go into the shredder just because they spent years at a large company. Consider that they're probably getting paid pretty well, probably get stock (or at least the discount on purchase of stock) that is already publicly traded and liquid, weeks of paid time off, all sorts of benefits and little concern about job loss due to insolvency. If an enterprise dev is telling a startup they want to work there, it's very likely that they believe in the product or simply want to work at the faster pace, and they'll have as much to teach you as you have to teach them.

/soapbox :D

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