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Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

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Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#311

Post by firebones »

awkwardtortoise wrote: post #299
firebones wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Edit: never mind. I think there's some mistake in your chronology that renders my numbers invalid. Died at 84 in 2017 == born in 1933. Retired in 1988 at age 55, probably not after 60 years at XOM, more like 30; or retired after 60 years, probably more like 1933+18+60=2011. Guessing maybe he retired at age 60 in 1993? Got sick at 72 in 2005? Died at 84? The numbers change a bit--missed out some big gains in 1988 and…

> Had he kept it in XOM, his $3 million would have been worth $22 million today, with a dividend that would have covered his expenses and that kept pace with inflation. His house value probably rose at a higher rate than XOM's did. Also, what's your point? His shares would be worth $22 million today and he'd still be dead.

The point is that his surviving wife wouldn't have to scrape by on social security, and that he wouldn't have had to have burned through his entire nest egg even if he was buying a house, cars, and spending $100K/yr + 12 years of medical expenses and long-term care.

But that's moot--the edit I made was because the $22M was based on a chronology problem in the original post. The ten year difference in retirement date from 1988 to 1998 is a much better explanation of the facts, and fits the OP's premise better.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#312

Post by michel-slm »

incompatible wrote: post #134
reustle wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to move to a country with proper healthcare

Most countries with decent healthcare are reluctant to accept retirees. They'll likely have to fund their own health insurance, at least. If you can gain citizenship of such a country, well in advance of retirement, it could be well worth it though.

So the trick is to persuade your children to emigrate to those countries, and then sponsor your visa.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#313

Post by martin1975 »

navbaker wrote: post #266
martin1975 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the Golden rule, no? It's as true as 2+2=4.

Are you leaving the proof to the reader as an exercise?

You got it. When people ask for proof, I always laugh.. cause they already know it :). And if they don't, it's the easiest thing to prove.

But with humans, I find that reminding them to do the right thing is a constant necessity...

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#314

Post by tutufan »

blhack wrote: post #102
RangerScience wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty brilliant. Definitely part of my stress was my rent; and I never felt bad spending money on groceries. I'm always tempted to do something like this anyway; the minimalist approach really appeals to me.

Don't get too bogged down in being a minimalist, though. You definitely don't have to get rid of everything in your house or anything.

You might rather enjoy it though.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#315

Post by tutufan »

mannykannot wrote: post #151
bradleyjg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optionality has value but it decays over time. If you forgo consumption in favor of savings up until the very end then you haven't been better off, you've been worse off. The dead can't benefit from spending money.

Spending the last years of your life worrying about how you will make ends meet is not an appealing option. Of course, if you set an end date for your lifetime, you can better plan ahead, but I have only known one person who voluntarily followed through on that plan, and it was a lifestyle choice with its own downsides. There is an inherent asymmetry between living somewhat more frugally and dying in poverty.

What downsides do you have in mind?

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#316

Post by tutufan »

tunesmith wrote: post #122
charlieflowers wrote: post #6

> "As a result, millions of Americans are living too frugally" WTF, really? Reminds me of Edward Bernays [1], the "father of public relations", who set out to help Americans become materialistic (and succeeded!). If someone is enjoying their life without blowing all their money, that person is BETTER off. It's just corporations that want to suck the money away from them that need to "train them to spend." [1] https:/…

On the other hand, I've had a couple of experiences where I've grudgingly spent money on something, and then felt, "Oh my god, why didn't I do this sooner? It would have helped my quality of life." Not just as luxuries, but in ways that freed me up to feel more productive or healthy. For instance (all of this assumes you have the money to do so), a bookkeeper for your small business. A CPA for your taxes. A lawn serv…

Bose noise-cancelling headphones. That tuna ventresca packed in olive oil in a jar. One of those two-chamber syrup time toys.
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