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Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#201

Post by vidarh »

efraim wrote: post #183
vidarh wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Assange kept offering to let them interview him in the UK. They refused for four years before finally agreeing last year. Why could they not have interviewed him for those four years?

Should the Swedish authorities chase after everyone they want to interview and do it where it pleases that person? If someone is wanted for rape and travels to Thailand, should Swedish prosecutor and police fly to Thailand to question them? What if the interview leads to them wanting to arrest that person, should they arrest them while in another country?

That depends. Should the Swedish authority care more about convenience than about seeking justice?

If they care about justice, and they are unable to get the person to Sweden, then it would seem the prudent recourse is to interview that person wherever they are.

You'll note that they finally did end up interviewing Assange in London, so they have conceded that it is possible and acceptable to do so. So the question is not whether or not Swedish authorities can or should do so - they've answered that question.

The question is what was served by waiting four years to do so. Certainly not justice.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#202

Post by dalbasal »

kevingadd wrote: post #159
dalbasal wrote: post #118

I suppose the ball is now in the US' court . Assange is a strange case, hes (Wikileaks is) really a journalist, and should be protected by laws and conventions protecting journalists. But he doesn't seem to identify too strongly with the press and presents more like a political dissident. I used to live in Melbourne (where wikileaks is sort of based). I stopped to sign a petition in his support. The petition mentione…

It's really regrettable that he's swung hard into manipulative conspiracy theories and attacks on people he disagrees with or politicians he dislikes. It's much harder to defend his current conduct as journalism, and WL's conduct with more recent leaks and hacked documents (like Macron's campaign) leaves a lot to be desired. In the past, I think you could make a strong argument that he should've been protected as a p…

I don't think he swung. He and Wikileaks were politically fringe people all along, and they were rude and confrontational all along. All of that may make you dislike him/them, but it doesn't make him a criminal or an enemy (as the CIA director labels him).

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#203

Post by Trill-I-Am »

jmkni wrote: post #93
forvelin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also he is still not free, UK made it clear that they would arrest him in first opportunity. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-sweden-assange-bri...

Because he skipped bail, which is against the law. They would arrest anybody who did the same thing.

Do you think they spend as much money on less politically noteworthy bail skippers?

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#204

Post by PJDK »

toyg wrote: post #179
PJDK wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been any kind of comparable instance though? Had he skipped bail by just not showing up we could compare the manhunt that happened with any other bail skipper. But his location was very publicly known - what would a reasonable government do in that situation in your view?

As you say, this is not a simple criminal case - criminals don't broadcast their location when skipping bail. So you have to deal with it politically. A reasonable government would have done that a long time ago, getting Sweden to change its stance sooner (as it eventually happened anyway, like most people asked for and predicted, since it had been done before). Once that is sorted, you can liquidate it all as "a big…

So a politically significant person should be able to leverage their celebrity and status to avoid a rape charge?

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#205

Post by vidarh »

rmc wrote: post #188
notahacker wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Assange truly feared the police blatantly violating Swedish law in support of rendition, then it would seem strange for him to base himself in Sweden, remain in the country whilst being well aware of the investigation under way against him and leave only on the day they notified him they'd received legal authorisation to detain him. And then repeat the whole thing in the UK...

It's also very strange that, if he was really afraid of the US & NATO, he'd flee to the UK . Sweden is not in NATO, and the UK co-founded it. The UK and the US have a long standing "special relationship", with the UK being the main other country involved in invading Iraq. If you're afraid of the US, why you'd go to the UK is beyond me.

First of all where does NATO come from here? Why would he fear NATO? It sounds to me like you just added that in because it's something that puts the UK in the same group as the US.

Where would you suggest he should go?

UK courts have a long history of letting extradition cases take years and/or denying extradition, and UK courts have a history of reacting to political pressure by standing firm rather than yielding. There are few places where I'd trust the legal system more.

Which other countries do you think have courts willing to stand up to political pressure, and where the US can't or won't just pick him off the streets without causing a major diplomatic crisis, and that would be somewhere you'd be able to get visas and where you'd want to live?

I can't think of many countries that'd fit those criterias. Most of the places I can think of where I'd believe the US would be unlikely to be able to get at someone are places I'd rather not want to live.

But the UK would be high on my list of places where I'd feel the risk would be low.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#206

Post by jmkni »

Trill-I-Am wrote: post #203
jmkni wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he skipped bail, which is against the law. They would arrest anybody who did the same thing.

Do you think they spend as much money on less politically noteworthy bail skippers?

Less politically noteworthy bail skippers generally wouldn't have the connections/money to avoid bail by hiding in an embassy for years, but I would say yes.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#207

Post by vidarh »

kristianc wrote: post #176
vidarh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assessment, though, is based on an assumption that Swedish authorities would have complied with Swedish law. Part of Assanges fear of going to Sweden, whether justified or not, is presumably that Sweden had a history of letting Swedish police get away with blatantly violating Swedish law in support of US rendition. One could argue that this risk is not real in his case, but that is/was not relevant to whether or…

> Part of that fear was presumably based in the unusual persistence of the Swedish prosecutor, which implied something odd was going on. But that "something odd" might simply have been the prosecutors ambitions. The law is the law, and Assange stood accused of a serious crime in Sweden. The idea that Sweden would simply forget about it because Assange had holed himself up in an embassy for five years seems misplaced.

With the "unusual persistence" I was not referring to keeping the case open, but with e.g. continuing to refuse not to interview him for four years for no good reason, while giving reasons that she eventually proved were false by finally agreeing to do it anyway.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#208

Post by snomad »

kevingadd wrote: post #159
dalbasal wrote: post #118

I suppose the ball is now in the US' court . Assange is a strange case, hes (Wikileaks is) really a journalist, and should be protected by laws and conventions protecting journalists. But he doesn't seem to identify too strongly with the press and presents more like a political dissident. I used to live in Melbourne (where wikileaks is sort of based). I stopped to sign a petition in his support. The petition mentione…

It's really regrettable that he's swung hard into manipulative conspiracy theories and attacks on people he disagrees with or politicians he dislikes. It's much harder to defend his current conduct as journalism, and WL's conduct with more recent leaks and hacked documents (like Macron's campaign) leaves a lot to be desired. In the past, I think you could make a strong argument that he should've been protected as a p…

Given that he was trapped in the same narrow space for 5+ years, he legitimately saw the US exercise unusual power (re-open investigation, pressure on Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal, etc) it is understandable that Wikileaks evolved as it did.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#209

Post by dghughes »

codedokode wrote: post #83
ginko wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What base do these have? Assange isn't a US citizen, so he can't be charged for treason like Snowden and Manning. He just gained information and published it.

There were many cases when USA kidnapped citizens of other countries and put them to jail.

If other countries did that to US citizens we all know the uproar it would cause in the US. Incredible hypocrisy.
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