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America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

bloomberg.com

361–370 of 528 posts

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric vehicles are a tough sell now though. The Bolt EV costs $36,620, the Prius $23,475. You could split the difference -- buy a Chevy Volt for $34,095 ($26,595 after Fed Tax Credit). Drive electric up to 50+ miles per charge, but still get 42mpg when driving on gasoline, with over 420 miles of total range per fueling. > In general people buying electric vehicles in 2017 are buying them for non-economic reasons…

Hybrids are cool, but now you have to maintain an electric and gasoline engine. I'm in the market for a new car and when comparing the prices of a new Chevy Volt vs. a new Chevy Bolt, it's not a huge price difference to go all electric and greatly reduce moving parts.

I'm looking too. Don't like what I'm seeing. We're at a weird time. I basically want a 80's Toyota, but they all got really fancy.

I understand federal emmission standards. It just seems like certain manufactures "blew up the body", while charging more, and making them really complicated. The average consumer has no idea just how complicated new vechicles have become. I see these customers sipping free Starbuck's coffee, and mineral water in lush dealership waiting rooms. And if you go out back, you see the hourly rate of $240 hr.

I have bought all my vechicles forever. I've only been to a dealership when buying new. I'm honestly getting scared. I despise giving people money for stuff I could do, if given the right information.

The last Non-Closer Salesman I saw said even the average mechanic is not working on newer cars; it's all dealership work. I brought along a blue-book and this Petaluma Dealership(one guy owns all the local dealerships) wouldn't budge on prices that were averaging 4-7 grand over BB. Then he said everyone is financing.

To any Salesman out there, if I guy walk in with $20,000; you sell him a used vechicle. Now--the economy in the Bay Area is booming, maybe that's the reason I walked out?

There's a need for a simple vechicle, that doesn't need to be brought to the dealer in order to fix.

Toyota--got a bit big, and prices were high.(low milage Toyotas are hard to find. I'm just leary of buying a hybrid. I went to automotive school, but never learned how to work on them. I'm still considering a Prius though. There's enough of them around I can source parts from.)

Honda--prices were high. Ford--liked the F-150, but the person I'm buying for couldn't get in comfortablely. They blew it up too much. Cooper--make in Germany by a division of BMW. Parts are high, along with service. KIA--I just don't know. I heard they are getting better?

I refuse, on moral grounds, to spend more than $25,000 out the door on a used car' with less than 40k miles. I'm thinking about a classic car, with a satellite GPS theft system.

At least I won't loose money, and can work on the vechicle.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#362
post #55

They picked an interesting starting point for their comparisons, which was 1975, several years after the following: 1) HP ratings went from SAE gross (at flywheel with no accessories) to SAE net (at flywheel with accessories and stock exhaust) 2) Smog controls (AIR, EGR, and cats) 3) Lower static compression ratios to handle unleaded fuel That said, computer-controlled spark and fuel, and now direct injection, makes…

The EPA data only goes back to 1975. https://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/download-co2-and-fuel-econom...

Yeah, it turns out that a lot of environmental and energy stuff didn't exist until the 1970s.

Nixon created the EPA, Carter the DoE, 1970 and 1977, respectively.

It wasn't until the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo that concerns over automobile efficiency even registered for most Americans. Gas was cheap. Cars were big. Life was good.

(That being the thinking, if not the reality.)

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#363
post #329

The last 3 cars I owned here in Germany had the following real life consumption: 45 mpg (bought 2002) 35 mpg (bought 2013) 42mpg (bought 2017)

I'm fairly certain that the reason the 2002 car was that efficient was because there was less emission regulations back then. They could simply use a more efficient burn at the cost of more polution. This was exactly what the VW scandal was all about.

It was a VW Polo Diesel and the others are gas :)

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#364
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious question, of course, is what you would've recommended for us to use between 1950 and 2000? Transportation and moving around fast is pretty dang valuable. It lets us do a lot of things, markets become larger, and the different number of highly specialized people I can interact with increases.

Higher population density in urban areas severely reduces the need for cars. It's possible to live in cities developed pre-car (London, Berlin, Boston, New York) without owning a car. Americans have put ourselves in a pickle by building sprawling suburbs, which then require cars to increase the "number of highly specialized people" they can interact with.

There are however many people who find high-density living to be unappealing

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#365
post #306
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can totally see how that would be true. You build muscle memory and positive associations around the operation of the machine. But you've gotta see too how it's akin to turning a rotary phone dial.

In some ways, yes, but excluding dual clutch transmissions, manual transmissions really do have a performance advantage while rotary phones did not have any advantage over touch tone other than, maybe at one point, cost.

I doubt that there are many drivers who can outperform a modern automatic transmission.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#366
post #80
post #60

I always wondered why American cars are so inefficient. Seems such a waste of your significantly cheaper gas :) I drive an Opel Astra H 1.7 CDTI and I can get up to 50 mpg (4.7 l/100 km) on the highway, and I never dip under 40 mpg (5.8 l/100km) even when doing a lot of city driving. I understand that my car is comparatively somewhat smaller (1200 kg) and underpowered (100 hp), yet I can't imagine needing more horsep…

"What do you get in the place for this lower efficiency? Are American cars that much heavier? More comfortable? Faster?" I cannot speak for everyone, but as someone who lives in the US and also spends a lot of time in Europe, there is a very big lifestyle difference at play here. First, I have a five person family (wife and three kids) and you[1], statistically, as a European, have 1.6 children - and as a highly educ…

As a guy from Belgium, who lives half the year in the bay area, I can confirm. Maybe because Belgium is so small, but when I'm in the US I have no problem driving an hour just to get to a walmart. In Belgium, this crosses half the country and I only do it on very select occasions. In the US I even drive from SF to LA and back every month, when in Europe I wouldn't even consider driving that far.

Each time I spend some time in the US, I'm thinking: 'I should drive to more places in Europe', but as soon as I'm back, my European stay-at-home mood kicks in.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, that is what we are trying to figure out here?! What is killing healthy people not expected to die shortly? For people approaching 90, everything from a fall to a cut can be deadly. But that tells us more about 90 year olds than cuts or falls.

Driving is super safe. There is no evidence that driving is any less safe for young people. They just rarely die of anything. Your argument is akin to arguing the most egregious type of death is abortion, because it costs someone their entire lifespan

> no evidence that driving is any less safe for young people

Glad you checked all that evidence for us, saves us the hassle.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, hydro is awesome for cheap renewable electricity.

Try to tell that to an Ontarian.

The hydroelectric generation is cheap in Ontario, but not overly abundant. The majority of the power in the province comes from much more costly nuclear sources.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#369
post #60

I always wondered why American cars are so inefficient. Seems such a waste of your significantly cheaper gas :) I drive an Opel Astra H 1.7 CDTI and I can get up to 50 mpg (4.7 l/100 km) on the highway, and I never dip under 40 mpg (5.8 l/100km) even when doing a lot of city driving. I understand that my car is comparatively somewhat smaller (1200 kg) and underpowered (100 hp), yet I can't imagine needing more horsep…

American cars are bigger (longer) and faster. When I've traveled in Europe, I'm always surprised by how small most cars are and how small the parking spots are. High mpg options exist in the US. Americans seem to prefer to trade gas savings for more power and bigger cars rather than saving some cash, at least at the current price point of gas.

Re: parking spots

My family keeps growing (in numbers, age and size) and as I'm approaching midlife affordability I would love a decent large SUV, like the Volvo XC90 etc to replace my ageing Ford Focus estate.

But for the life of me, I can't imagine the pain of owning such a large vehicle. Parking would be a nightmare. At home, in town, anywhere. I live in Hampshire in England and the parking spots around here are all designed with 1970s Golfs and Morris Minors in mind it seems so not SUV compatible at all.

I already frequently can only open the door 1/4 of the way and really squeeze my stomach in to get into the car. With a large SUV, I would surely have to enter via the boot all the time. They may only be 5-10cm wider on each side, but that is totally impractical around here.

Tesla-esque self-driving/summoning would really solve this as I could just ask the car to reverse a little before I get in, so parking tightly would then not be a problem. For me at least.

Thankfully SUVs would be 4x4 as I also would surely have to go partially off-road when meeting other cars on the lanes around here.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#370
post #69
post #60

I always wondered why American cars are so inefficient. Seems such a waste of your significantly cheaper gas :) I drive an Opel Astra H 1.7 CDTI and I can get up to 50 mpg (4.7 l/100 km) on the highway, and I never dip under 40 mpg (5.8 l/100km) even when doing a lot of city driving. I understand that my car is comparatively somewhat smaller (1200 kg) and underpowered (100 hp), yet I can't imagine needing more horsep…

Having lived (and appreciated) Europe and their cars: 1. You guy drive a lot less than us. I do trips three times as long as what would destroy me in Europe (twice a month I drive 500 km without stopping and back the next day) 2. Are you using the imperial gallon or the american gallon? Very common mistake (the mile used in the article looks like and probably is the 3.8l gal) Edit, you're using the right gallon.

Driving 500 kilometers without stopping is terribly dangerous for yourself and the people around you. Please be considerate.
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