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Chelsea Manning released from prison

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291–300 of 307 posts

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Alleged rape' is a term loaded with propaganda for what he is accused of, especially taking into account what the witnesses have to say about the incidents.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange... To my knowledge, that ist what he is wanted for in Sweden. If there is a better way to express that, I would like to hear it.

Good thing he wasnt sentenced to embassy arrest for 15 years- that would be something we usually only do to murders.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he was not a whistleblower, there was nothing important to leak besides bunch of state's secrets. The leaks held no value.

I'd argue that the Collateral Murder videos triggered considerable controversy and criticism against the US military's attitude to airstrikes. The cable leaks also caused a fair amount of political embarrassment. So it depends on what you consider to be valuable - I'd say direct evidence of airstrikes being triggered against civilians with minimal oversight alone is valuable to a citizenry that wants to keep tabs on…

Yeah, thats quite the wrong sort of airstrike. The good sort of airstrike is, where you sneak in the middle of the night in some village, where one bad guy sleeps - kill him, get caught - wake everyone up, and get in a chaotic shoot out with a medieval village, where raids by neighboring warlords are the norm.

Then when you get wounded you call a airstrike and eliminate the village.

One has to give it to the drone warriors- at least they send the commando duke of hazards to the unemployment office.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#293
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she served a more than adequate punishment for her crime (if anything, she should have only had serve something less than 5 years).. and I wish her all the happiness that life has to offer.

Her punishment was illegal under the 8th amendment, and her "crime" was protected whistleblowing.

I don't think putting someone in extended solitary confinement is reasonable in almost any circumstance (and very not reasonable in this case). But I don't think what she did is protected whistleblowing (she basically aired the 'sausage making' of US foreign and military policy, not highlighted a specific violation of US law) - on the other hand, I think the length of the sentence ought to be proportional to the gravity of the crime.. 35 years is overkill by an order of magnitude, she should have gotten 1-5 years.. with 2 being an ideal.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#294
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might assume that if what she leaked upset people to the point of revolution that there was something they had a right to be upset about.

This works all that well from an idealistic perspective but when the result is having these nations over-run by terrorists like ISIS and oppressive theocratic regimes, I question the benefit of these revolutions. The world is more complex than simple "it's bad, let's revolt." There are better ways to bring about change than inciting violent revolutions.

Chelsea didn't incite the revolutions. She only released the information. The information that was previously hidden was found to be egregious enough for others to incite the violence. That's enough reason for me to believe she was right that people had the right to know.

Yeah, I'd have preferred the Arab Spring to be resolved more peaceably myself. It's not under Chelsea's control nor mine how that played out after the information was released. It's difficult to blame the person who released true information for the impact of the information. The content and the creators or subjects of the content are to blame for the revolutions. Chelsea just let the rebels and revolutionaries know what they had every right to know.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#295
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of trans women are murdered around the world on a daily basis, and yes, including the USA.

I'm going to have to ask for a citation confirming that trans people (there are trans men too) are killed on a daily basis in the USA. That sounds like hyperbole.

Yes there are about as many trans men as trans women, but trans women are at a higher risk of violence.

Here's some more reading: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgend... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_tran...

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#297
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't really any eggshells to walk on unless you're inventing them (and the person you replied to was not impolite about the correction). Chelsea Manning identifies as a woman. This isn't something that happens overnight; it's impossible for you or I or the great-grandparent to know when Manning decided to come out to family, friends, that sort of thing. As such, it's incumbent upon us to use the most currentl…

We're just gonna have to respectfully agree to disagree on some of this. I don't go out of my way to be insensitive, but I'm not going to flush my DVD of The Matrix down the Memory Hole because it has "Wachowski Brothers" stamped on it. If the Wachowskis put out a new movie today, I'll reference them appropriately as the Wachowski sisters who produced it, but they simply weren't sisters when they created The Matrix,…

Nobody is "rewriting history," that's absurd.

>this is an edge case where nobody is right or wrong

It's not some sort of edge case, the "right," (polite) way to refer to someone is the way they prefer to be refereed as. If someone named James introduces themselves as "Jimmy" and you refer to him as "James" and he says "it's Jimmy" and you say "Nuh uh your name on your birth certificate is James, you're wrong I'm right!!" you are just being a dick.

People change what they like to be called during their life all the time, that's not new nor is it an edge case. Kid nicknames go to the wayside of adult names/nicknames. I've known a "Peggie" who changed to "Margaret," an "Anthony" who changed to "Tony," and a "Robbie" who is now "Bob." In fact, many/most women change their name at some point in the future. It's normal/accepted/polite to call someone by their current name/pronoun even when referring to past actions.

If I recall a childhood story about my friend Tony I'm going to call him Tony in the story even if he went by Anthony at the time. It's weird/confusing/stupid to do otherwise and certainly not "rewriting history" or "changing the rules."

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#298
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't really any eggshells to walk on unless you're inventing them (and the person you replied to was not impolite about the correction). Chelsea Manning identifies as a woman. This isn't something that happens overnight; it's impossible for you or I or the great-grandparent to know when Manning decided to come out to family, friends, that sort of thing. As such, it's incumbent upon us to use the most currentl…

>it's incumbent upon us to use the most currently, and thus least likely to inadvertently offend, pronoun and referents This only follows if the value of "not saying something that would be offensive to someone who isn't even party to the conversation" (a value which we violate without a second thought, sometimes even gleefully, when it doesn't involve an anointed "social justice" issue) outweighs the value of "commu…

So if if you talk about your married friend using their married name you are pretending they were never unmarried?

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#299
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what did you write

I corrected someone that described someone with male chromosones as "she"

So you walk around "correcting" people who call these women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrom... "she?" You must be fun at parties.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. Chelsea Manning says that their gender is female, even if their biological sex is male. As a consequence of respect for their personal identity as a member of society (and NOT fixating on their sex organs, which is frankly creepy), most people will refer to a trans* person as the gender they identify as, not the sex they were born with. Or, if uncertain…

When we refer to things, we use words that convey our perception of them. People identify themselves a certain way, and I can identify them a certain way too. The notion of someone's gender has relevance to others. It doesn't make sense to go purely based on their own self perception. For me, I tend to assign gender by sex. I don't want to disrespect myself by saying something I don't believe. On the other hand I don…

We are talking about people here, not things. People have personal preferences and feelings whereas things do not.
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