Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company • Hacker News Board

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#201

Post by anarazel » Fri, May 19, 2017, 1:08 AM UTC

nasalgoat wrote: post #195

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess our use cases are just different. Mind sharing some examples of your use case that demands that much compute power? I do run a database on my server (which isn't even a Large) for an e-commerce site. It fits handily in half a gig of ram. The hundreds of products we offer have associated images, but we just store the filenames in the database and they load from disk (or, more likely, Cloudflare cache). Honestl…

We have billions of rows of data and very complicated CTEs doing joins on a dozen tables matching based on GEOS radius data, and it's the primary query for our application. We're running PostgreSQL 9.5 and need to have all the data in memory for the fastest results. Part of the problem is that the network disk that EC2 provides as EBS is 100x slower than local disk, so keeping all the indexes and data in memory is th…

> Part of the problem is that the network disk that EC2 provides as EBS is 100x slower than local disk, so keeping all the indexes and data in memory is the only way to replicate physical hardware performance.

> If anyone knows of a better EC2 setup for PostgreSQL, I'm all ears.

Have a proper replication & archiving setup, and use instance storage. If you have configured streaming replication to 1-2 other servers, and archive your WAL to s3 (using wal-e or such), you're already above EBS's guarantees (99.9% durability IIRC?).

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#202

Post by cowpewter » Fri, May 19, 2017, 1:13 AM UTC

fapjacks wrote: post #198

cowpewter wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not toys, think more along the lines of art dolls. They aren't for kids, they cost anywhere from $$$ to $$$$ a piece.

I am very interested in the reason for this pricing, if you wouldn't mind enlightening me? I never understood why they are so expensive.

Well, mostly, it's because they're not mass-produced. The type that I collect are made from polyurethane resin, which has to be handcast in silicone rubber molds.

Each doll is made of 15+ individually cast pieces (at minimum - two feet, two calves, two thighs, two hands, two forearms, two upper arms, torso, head and headcap, and that is for a single-jointed doll with a one-piece torso, many dolls will also have extra knee, elbow, wrist, and ankle pieces, and the torso may be in two or three pieces instead of one).

Those pieces then have to be hand-finished (removal of extra flashing material, sometimes elastic channels drilled for the stringing if that was not already included in the mold, sometimes full seam sanding), and assembled with elastic and metal hooks.

The silicone molds are only good for about 10-20 castings before they start having enough wear and tear to reduce the quality of the resulting doll, so a lot of the material cost is actually in the silicone (platinum-cure silicone is much more expensive than resin). New molds then must be made off of the original master sculpture.

Then, if you bought the doll with a face up, an artist hand paints the doll's features with pastels and acrylic paints. And if you bought it blank, you will have to either paint the face yourself or commission someone to do so eventually, as blank dolls really don't have anything in the way of features - imagine a 3d model with no textures applied.

So that's just the incremental cost of each individual doll. On top of that you have to pay for artist development time of new sculpts, marketing and websites, translators if you want to be able to sell your dolls worldwide, all other other usual overhead costs of running any sort of business, etc.

Edit: Also, I don't know if most people really realize the size of some of these dolls. The ones I have that start broaching the $1k mark are anywhere from 65-72cm tall, and weigh as much as 10 lbs. One of mine is 80cm tall, meant to represent a 12ish year old girl in 1:2 scale. She's so big I buy her shoes from the toddler department, not a doll shop.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#203

Post by Godel_unicode » Fri, May 19, 2017, 1:16 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #200

valuearb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a shareholder and want to spend some of your profits on ecologically conscious activities, no one can stop you. But that doesn't mean you should force the other shareholders to do the same. And Etsy isn't a B corporation. It's CEO tried to make it one and failed.

How is that different than saying, "If you are a shareholder and you want to make as much money as possible regardless of social costs, no one can stop you. But that doesn't mean you should force the other shareholders to do the same" If we go by your logic, then the only thing people are allowed to pool their money together for is to make the most money possible. Am I not allowed to incorporate a public company that…

In theory, you can organize a public company around any principles you want.

And then, when other people buy a controlling interest in your company, they are just as free to change it. Public companies do what a majority of their shareholders want, and people who buy stock are overwhelmingly interested in profit.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#204

Post by oihpojef0jeoih » Fri, May 19, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

I'd like to pre-order "Don't' Quit Your Day Job, the Rise & Fall of Etsy" if someone with inside knowledge is ready to write it.

I'm not an insider by any means but I've heard some fascinating stories over the years about how the company has coped (and failed to cope) with the trappings of success.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#205

Post by cortesoft » Fri, May 19, 2017, 1:51 AM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #203

cortesoft wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different than saying, "If you are a shareholder and you want to make as much money as possible regardless of social costs, no one can stop you. But that doesn't mean you should force the other shareholders to do the same" If we go by your logic, then the only thing people are allowed to pool their money together for is to make the most money possible. Am I not allowed to incorporate a public company that…

In theory, you can organize a public company around any principles you want. And then, when other people buy a controlling interest in your company, they are just as free to change it. Public companies do what a majority of their shareholders want, and people who buy stock are overwhelmingly interested in profit.

Right, but that isn't what the person I was responding to was saying. They said shareholders had no right to demand anything besides maximum lifetime profit. I was simply saying that they were within their rights to ask for something different, if a majority of shareholders felt that way.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#206

Post by friedman23 » Fri, May 19, 2017, 3:10 AM UTC

ryanbrunner wrote: post #128

valuearb wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friedman is of course right, whether lawmakers and jurists have tried to codify rules allowing directors to betray shareholder interests. A single business is not responsible for externalities, any more than a single citizen is. We are ALL responsible for negative externalities like pollution and have to solve those problems together, using the political process and sharing the costs among everyone. And his statement…

You're correct that ultimately, at the end of the day, the shareholders are the owners of the business, and should have ultimate control over how their resources are allocated or spent. That doesn't mean that the shareholders interests are necessarily for profit above all else. If your shareholders were perfectly happy with being ecologically conscious and providing an above-average place of business for employees ir…

> If your shareholders were perfectly happy with being ecologically conscious and providing an above-average place of business for employees irrespective of profit, wouldn't demanding focus on profit above all else be working against the shareholder's interests?

This argument of shareholders wanting to be ecologically conscious is such a privileged idea. The majority of money in the stock market doesn't come from the rich who can afford to be flippant with their stock returns. It comes from people relying on consistent equity appreciation so they can afford to retire.

We already know how to deal with negative externalities such as pollution. Evaluate how much it costs society and tax it accordingly.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#207

Post by davewasthere » Fri, May 19, 2017, 3:32 AM UTC

shawnbaden wrote: post #37

This applies to any job: work where what you do is the core discipline. At a law firm, be a lawyer. At a medical practice, be a doctor. As a software engineer, work at a company where software is the product. Don’t write software at an insurance company and expect job satisfaction. At such companies software engineers are seen as replaceable. Another option: work where what you do is largely represented by upper mana…

Actually, I quite like writing software in companies where software isn't the core discipline. But I'm writing it in support of the core discipline. Admittedly I consult/freelance now, but writing software to support FMCGs, Loss Adjusters, Hospitality, Airlines, etc.... it's all cool stuff and really enjoyable.

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#208

Post by dimaggiosghost » Fri, May 19, 2017, 3:35 AM UTC

ClearAsMud wrote: post #92

To bad they don't sell hand made, home grown artist stuff anymore. The Chinese knock-off Gucci "authentic" syndication machine took over under many names / masks / illusions. It's more the Walmart Hobby Lobby .. where it all looks good on the way or on your back (shirt/whatever) .. it's still most likely made in China. #fact. The revenue is more about the fees and clear profit machine that is required to run a profit…

Personally, if the goods quality is high, I don't think the designers or Brandee's ought to capture the majority of the value.

The "credit" (my money) goes to the people that made and got the product to me.

I think the appropriate level of discussion is "at what level is art conodditised" to which I would say "I have no idea, but somewhere before it's printed on clothing and sold to me".

Other people who value different aspects of fashion are likely to disagree, but in general I don't highly value the creativity in clothing

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#209

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, May 19, 2017, 6:17 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #101

clavalle wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The easiest response is to ask you to read some Warren Buffett. I've read plenty of Buffet, Munger, Graham, Dodd and the rest. Pretty common knowledge. What you are missing in your analysis is that Buffet et. al. invest in very well understood businesses (hell, they didn't even touch Amazon). Very well understood businesses tend to have very well understood systems (including the people and their roles and contribut…

If Etsy's management didn't understand their business, they shouldn't have been it's management. But truth is, their business isn't from Mars, it's easy to understand, even if it's not easy to optimize. And if they truly need special custom development, why are they so poor at doing it? Where are the benefits of all that admin spending? And BTW, I can't think of one Berkshire business that has any significant moat fr…

> But truth is, their business isn't from Mars, it's easy to understand, even if it's not easy to optimize. And if they truly need special custom development, why are they so poor at doing it? Where are the benefits of all that admin spending?

Speaking of Buffet, this sounds a little bit like his explanation of the "Institutional Imperative" http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1989.html (just above the 'miscellaneous' section at the bottom)

Re: Etsy is under pressure to start acting more like a conventional company

#210

Post by thirdsun » Fri, May 19, 2017, 6:39 AM UTC

shawnbaden wrote: post #37

This applies to any job: work where what you do is the core discipline. At a law firm, be a lawyer. At a medical practice, be a doctor. As a software engineer, work at a company where software is the product. Don’t write software at an insurance company and expect job satisfaction. At such companies software engineers are seen as replaceable. Another option: work where what you do is largely represented by upper mana…

> As a software engineer, work at a company where software is the product. Don’t write software at an insurance company and expect job satisfaction. At such companies software engineers are seen as replaceable.

Speak for yourself. My non-tech employer (small manufacturer) treats me very well and despite being anything but an exceptional developer my experience is that developers are closer to being regarded as magicians in these environments.

That's of course a very anecdotal impression, but so is yours.