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America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

bloomberg.com

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Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#261

Post by maratd »

coherentpony wrote: post #220
spectrum1234 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a libertarian my view is that in the short term often government does act faster than the market. The problem is that the in medium and long term the market can't act.

What does that mean?

Once the government enacts a solution, there is reduced incentive for the market to come up with a better solution.

For example, people want clean cars. Government mandates cleaner cars. Cars are now clean enough to make most people happy, but still somewhat dirty. If government didn't act, the overwhelming number of people who desired clean cars may have pushed the market to switch to electric cars. That's happening much more slowly now, because the solution the government implemented was "good enough" for most people.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#262

Post by davexunit »

DamnInteresting wrote: post #73

A few weeks ago I bought a Chevy Bolt EV...according to the dealer it was the first one sold in my state (Utah). I'd been on a waiting list for almost a year. Sure, ICE engines are getting better, but EVs are rapidly gaining and will soon surpass. The Bolt is a bit expensive for a car of its body type, but "gassing up" at home is amazing, the 200+ mile range is great, and the sharply reduced emissions are a weight of…

Did you get the LT or Premier? Also, do you have a Level 2 EVSE at home? To me, the Premier version is the only version really worth getting (with the DC Fast charging port upgrade at the very least), but the price tag is a bit hard to look at, especially when thinking about the sale tax, dealership fees, registration fees, electrician fees for the EVSE installation (optional, but barely), etc. that go on top.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#263

Post by YZF »

darrylb42 wrote: post #180
vvanders wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot oil changes in you calc. Also your $8.70 is only $4.19 in Washington :). Costs are dropping on EVs and will continue to drop as economy of scale picks up. They may not make sense today but there's a good chance they will tomorrow.

Interesting. In Vancouver in CDN$ $5.15-$7.72 to charge and $25.80@1.369 per liter to fill up. https://www.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/el...

And you get to go in the HOV lanes as well!

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#264

Post by YokoZar »

valuearb wrote: post #169
YokoZar wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more complete analysis of death rates compares the cause of death vs the otherwise expected lifespan of the person. Cancer and heart disease are major killers, but they primarily affect old unhealthy people. Car crashes and suicides are much more likely to kill young people -- while they may be a relatively small proportion of "total deaths" they are a much larger contributor to "loss of average lifespan"

Driving is super safe. There is no evidence that driving is any less safe for young people. They just rarely die of anything.

Right. Which is why when they do die from preventable causes it has such a large impact on average lifespan. If we want more humans alive for longer we should not ignore these high impact relatively low frequency dangers.

If you're under the age of 35, driving may very well be the most dangerous habit you have.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#265

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #225
grandalf wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarians are not anti-regulation, they just believe that the good and bad consequences of regulations should be understood. Often, those who are not libertarians will support a regulation simply because they agree with its stated aim... things like "the patriot act" or "the affordable care act". Those names are chosen to sound good, not because they reflect the intent of legislation or the outcome of it. To give…

> Libertarians are not anti-regulation Yes, they are. See https://www.lp.org/issues/the-economy/ "Libertarians believe that the only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected."

[deleted]

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#266

Post by eevilspock »

comicjk wrote: post #236
grandalf wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarians are not anti-regulation, they just believe that the good and bad consequences of regulations should be understood. Often, those who are not libertarians will support a regulation simply because they agree with its stated aim... things like "the patriot act" or "the affordable care act". Those names are chosen to sound good, not because they reflect the intent of legislation or the outcome of it. To give…

That sounds like a "motte and bailey" argument to me. It's common sense that "the good and bad consequences of regulations should be understood." That's a position that's trivially easy to defend. Libertarians usually argue for a great deal more than that: civil liberties, non-interventionism, laissez-faire capitalism and the abolition of the welfare state. But these things are not obvious simply from understanding t…

I think most people who call themselves libertarian today have betrayed the first principle of libertarianism (my body and the fruits of my labor belong to me and me only) by adopting stances and definitions that are actually antithetical that principle.

Are you a Real Libertarian, or a ROYAL Libertarian? is a must read.

http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#267

Post by coredog64 »

azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

CAFE, as written, is hot garbage. It sets a ceiling on fuel economy, not a floor.

The difficulty in writing good legislation (then or now) is that other markets that value fuel economy more have already created some great cars. As a consequence, the easiest workaround is to import those cars and sell them here. That would predictably lead to job losses in an industry with an influential union.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#268

Post by QuercusMax »

foobarrio wrote: post #75
drewg123 wrote: post #11

I'm not sure that I believe their assertion that cars have gotten lighter. Perhaps the real land-yacht monstrosities have been weeded out (and replaced with SUVs). But it seems like comfort and safety concerns, coupled with more power and better fuel economy have been causing equivalent cars to become heavier (and more expensive) over time. As an example, one of my first cars was an 84 VW GTI. It weighed ~2000lbs. Tr…

Car models move upscale as they get older and newer models slide in under it. The old 80's Honda Accord is physically smaller than today's Toyota Civic. The spot that was occupied by the Civic is now occupied by the Fit. A 1996 Honda Civic hatchback was about 2600lbs which is the same as a 2016 Honda Fit.

This is so true. My first car was an '86 Honda Civic with a manual transmission; I drove it till it was about to fall apart, and loved the way it felt.

I later bought a manual transmission Fit because it felt and drove EXACTLY like my beloved Civic, but wasn't old and crappy. The way it shifted just felt perfect. Wonder how long it will take till the Fit starts expanding.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#269

Post by coredog64 »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #230
azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

I would like to point out this is due to confusion by almost all peoples who haven't formally studied the economics of regulation. There are in fact, two types of regulation: "Safety and Soundness" and "economic." Economic regulation is almost always a bad thing and results in gross market inefficiencies like barriers to entry, cronyism, and destroys any hope of a functioning capitalist system. Think trucking regulat…

Can you please point out the exact parts of Glass-Steagall that, had they been left in place, would have prevented the GFC?

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#270

Post by ajross »

grandalf wrote: post #247
ajross wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You spend a lot of words there describing what libertarians don't do and defending them from what I'm guessing you'd call a straw man. So... am I right that you, as a presumptive libertarian, support the fuel efficiency regulations passed in the 70's and 90's, as witnessed by the evidence in the linked article? If someone expert told you that similar regulation passed today would have a similar effect, would you supp…

> am I right that you... support the fuel efficiency regulations passed in the 70's and 90's No I would prefer a carbon tax charged per vehicle based on miles driven per year and the pollution emitted from the vehicle. > If someone expert told you that similar regulation passed today would have a similar effect, would you support it? What effect did it have? Do you think automakers would have continued to use 1960s e…

> What effect did it have?

I genuinely don't understand how a technical person can look at the graph in the linked article and ask that question. This is just willful disbelief..

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