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America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

bloomberg.com

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Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#251

Post by grandalf »

tealdeer wrote: post #250
grandalf wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarians are not anti-regulation, they just believe that the good and bad consequences of regulations should be understood. Often, those who are not libertarians will support a regulation simply because they agree with its stated aim... things like "the patriot act" or "the affordable care act". Those names are chosen to sound good, not because they reflect the intent of legislation or the outcome of it. To give…

> Why not charge a tax that increases for every year a car gets older, so that the person driving the smoke-emitting clunker has an incentive to upgrade into something that is cleaner and safer. Seems like this tax burden would fall disproportionately on the poor who couldn't afford to upgrade their old clunker in the first place.

Perhaps, but if new cars were cheaper then there would be more (and newer) used cars on the road. No matter who is driving it, an old clunker that creates 20x the emissions of a new car is harming all of us every mile it is driven.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#252

Post by malchow »

azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

The MPG chart is of median MPG among production vehicles, not mean, and not mean weighted by person-miles driven.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#253

Post by highd »

azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

It's unproductive to discuss political labels. It's sufficient to say this is a case where regulation was helpful - as are most cases involving protecting common resources.

Issues are independent from each other. Continuing to discuss each point as it fits into the frameworks of the popular ideologies only serves to polarize when productive change requires unification.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#255

Post by jacquesm »

exclusiv wrote: post #132
fiblye wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 out of 70 is pretty damn huge. We have global campaigns about preventing cancers that are less dangerous than car accidents. There was panic over Ebola, which killed essentially nobody compared to car accidents. Yet the general response to 1/70 people deaths being because of cars is "meh, oh well."

Agreed. Part of the problem is that we use the word "accident" when it's almost always someone's fault. Everytime I see someone driving terribly I know there's a 50%+ chance they have a sizable dent on their car from a car crash or from them hitting some inanimate object. It's actually a game I play - I'll see someone driving poorly and then say "where's the dent" and look for it. Sometimes I'll even switch lanes to…

One day you'll be so intent on checking dents on other peoples cars you will cause an accident yourself! My theory is that people should be looking at traffic, not at the detailing on someone else's vehicle.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#256

Post by jacquesm »

valuearb wrote: post #164
dashundchen wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/3 of avoidable deaths is not insubstantial - and traffic accidents aren't the only harm done by autos. Add in an estimated 53,000 deaths in the US due to transportation emissions. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013... Potentially millions killed by auto emissions worldwide. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/dec/17/pollutio... The leading cause of death in the US for people under…

Except that some illnesses like cancer are avoidable, it's not just accidents. Except that buses and trains and horses and teslas kill people and pollute. Even bikes kill people. Every mode of transportation is a killer, so if you want to eliminate travel deaths you can only eliminate travel. If you eliminated cars completely tens of thousands would likely still die in the US from transportation accidents. But now yo…

> Except that some illnesses like cancer are avoidable

Sorry?

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#257

Post by whatnotests »

mgarfias wrote: post #254

My '87 Camaro weighed 3300lb. The equivalent model today weighs 3700lb. A '77 weighed 3500. My 2001 corvette weighs 3040lb dry, a new Z06 is 3700. Tell me again how things are lighter?

The new ones seem...poofier...larger...maybe less dense?

Less mass per cubic meter?

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#258

Post by dugditches »

vvanders wrote: post #244
darrylb42 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. In Vancouver in CDN$ $5.15-$7.72 to charge and $25.80@1.369 per liter to fill up. https://www.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/el...

Yup, hydro is awesome for cheap renewable electricity.

Try to tell that to an Ontarian.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#259

Post by wtallis »

rsync wrote: post #127
oblio wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Audi A8 thing, is that because A8 is an expensive car? Or because it is comparatively smaller? If it's the second one, I've seen horse trailers pulled by smaller cars (even Golf, I think).

No, you see - in the United States it is assumed that any towing or work activities must be done with a truck . I am not exaggerating at all when I tell you that the minimum acceptable size for this truck is larger than most freight/delivery trucks in European cities. Here is a completely normal, totally average truck that millions of people in the US use as a daily driver and have on-hand because they occasionally b…

And the scary thing is how many large trucks and SUVs are sold without the hardware necessary to tow a trailer. It's absurd to buy something like a Suburban with a V8 that doesn't even have the potential to be burdened with the kind of load that would differentiate it from a van.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#260

Post by ericd »

valuearb wrote: post #164
dashundchen wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/3 of avoidable deaths is not insubstantial - and traffic accidents aren't the only harm done by autos. Add in an estimated 53,000 deaths in the US due to transportation emissions. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013... Potentially millions killed by auto emissions worldwide. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/dec/17/pollutio... The leading cause of death in the US for people under…

Except that some illnesses like cancer are avoidable, it's not just accidents. Except that buses and trains and horses and teslas kill people and pollute. Even bikes kill people. Every mode of transportation is a killer, so if you want to eliminate travel deaths you can only eliminate travel. If you eliminated cars completely tens of thousands would likely still die in the US from transportation accidents. But now yo…

The health benefits from riding bikes more than offset the dangers, especially when they're not forced to share lanes with road tanks piloted by people who don't take their driving responsibility seriously. Driving cars don't yield the same benefits. When you take that into account, driving is much more hazardous to your health.

Also, forcing cities to accommodate cars via zoning has lead to a huge host of problems, from making centers that are no longer walkable, and destroying the social fabric of the city that used to happen via face to face interactions. Anywhere there is fast traffic, people no longer want to walk, because it's incredibly stressful being near speeding cars.

If you want a visible demonstration of the difference, visit some small pre-car cities in Italy, the public places are wonderful, and you can see people bumping into each other and chatting all the time. People walk everywhere. Compare with the sprawling wastelands of asphalt we've created, including on some of the most expensive parking lots in the world in Silicon Valley.

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