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America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

bloomberg.com

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Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#211

Post by lacampbell »

notatoad wrote: post #121
timelol wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an electric _bicycle_ that routinely dusts off ICE cars at stop lights. It just takes a while for all that machinery to start rolling.

I have a pedal-powered bicycle that dusts ICE cars at stop lights. For, like, 5 metres... Not only does it take a while to get all that machinery rolling, doing it quickly kills your gas mileage. Most drivers aren't drag-racing out of the stoplights.

I have a pedal-powered bicycle that dusts ICE cars at stop lights. For, like, 5 metres...

I've noticed that too. I'm no athlete, but I can often beat cars across an intersection. Another thing I've noticed is that many cyclists don't shift down before they stop. They have to get up off their seat to even start. Even people in full kit on expensive bicycles do this.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#212

Post by YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 »

eanzenberg wrote: post #198
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You forgot oil changes in you calc. Are you, perhaps, being sarcastic with your comment? Anyway, there are few countries (if any) on Earth where EVs make financial sense for an average person. Their time will come, but buying into it now is not investing – indeed, as the GP commented, you do it for altogether different reasons.

100,000 miles changing oil every 3,000 miles at $30 a pop is ~$1000 so yes, within consideration.

>changing oil every 3,000 miles

What? I mean, what? Whatever you want, I guess.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#213

Post by vvanders »

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #194
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's not being sarcastic. Are you? EVs don't require oil changes. Or muffler/exhaust service. Or transmission service. And their brakes last longer.

Are you non-sarcastically implying that an oil change presents as a major expenditure in owning and using an ICE vehicle? If so, I get it.. you don't own a car; which begs the question of why are we discussing this?

Yup and if you want to make a true comparison find a 500hp car(that will probably run on premium, get ~25mpg and use synthetic oil). That's what our 85D is.

Did I break even? No, but with prices coming down it'll happen.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#214

Post by orf »

refurb wrote: post #209
minikites wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the libertarians I've talked with about seat belt laws, their argument would probably be to hand-wave it away with "It would have happened anyway thanks to the magic of the market."

So when gas prices went through the roof in the 1970's and there was rationing, you don't think that created consumer demand for more fuel efficient cars?

Clearly not, or not enough to make a difference. America didn't stop producing gas guzzlers after the 70's. If anything mpg went down as trucks got bigger

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#215

Post by evanlivingston »

valuearb wrote: post #74
evanlivingston wrote: post #28

I've always been baffled by the lack of progress in increasing MPG for automobiles. my 2001 toyota echo: ~35 mpg my 92 VW cabriolet: ~28 mpg my 2001 ford ranger 4x4: ~25mpg These vehicles all got better or equivalent of vehicles made 20 years later.

1992 Golf Cabrio: MPG: 28 city/ 32 highway HP: 110 0-60: 9.5 secs Length: 153" Weight: 2193 lbs 2017 Golf Cabrio: MPG: 25 city/36 highway HP: 170 0-60: 6.6 secs Length: 167" Weight: 3,000 lbs Over the last 25 years the VW Golf has gotten almost 50% larger, is far safer, far more comfortable, far faster, and has basically identical gas mileage.

This is one of the points of confusion for me. I didn't buy a cabriolet to take kids to and from school, to haul gear around or to beat some other kid in muscle car off the line. Increased safety is a nice, but bigger? faster? I would trade speed any day for better mileage. But apparently better mpg is less of a demand than bigger and faster.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#216

Post by ajross »

grandalf wrote: post #197
azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

Libertarians are not anti-regulation, they just believe that the good and bad consequences of regulations should be understood. Often, those who are not libertarians will support a regulation simply because they agree with its stated aim... things like "the patriot act" or "the affordable care act". Those names are chosen to sound good, not because they reflect the intent of legislation or the outcome of it. To give…

You spend a lot of words there describing what libertarians don't do and defending them from what I'm guessing you'd call a straw man.

So... am I right that you, as a presumptive libertarian, support the fuel efficiency regulations passed in the 70's and 90's, as witnessed by the evidence in the linked article? If someone expert told you that similar regulation passed today would have a similar effect, would you support it?

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#217

Post by spectrum1234 »

azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

As a libertarian my view is that in the short term often government does act faster than the market. The problem is that the in medium and long term the market can't act.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#218

Post by ajross »

orf wrote: post #214
refurb wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when gas prices went through the roof in the 1970's and there was rationing, you don't think that created consumer demand for more fuel efficient cars?

Clearly not, or not enough to make a difference. America didn't stop producing gas guzzlers after the 70's. If anything mpg went down as trucks got bigger

The article clearly shows mpg getting rapidly better in the 1970's, with an inflection point right at the passage of the mileage target.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#219

Post by davexunit »

maxsilver wrote: post #208
Someone1234 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric vehicles are a tough sell now though. The Chevy Bolt EV has a 60 kWh Lithium-ion battery; to charge that fully costs $8.7 in Utah (14.5 cents per kWh). Per the EPA's measure that gets you 238 miles. Gas costs approx $2.24/gallon in Utah. A Prius has a 11.3 gallon tank and a 540 miles range (again, EPA standard). That means that $11.15 would get you the same distance as a full Bolt EV charge in gas. Now, befo…

> Electric vehicles are a tough sell now though. The Bolt EV costs $36,620, the Prius $23,475. You could split the difference -- buy a Chevy Volt for $34,095 ($26,595 after Fed Tax Credit). Drive electric up to 50+ miles per charge, but still get 42mpg when driving on gasoline, with over 420 miles of total range per fueling. > In general people buying electric vehicles in 2017 are buying them for non-economic reasons…

Hybrids are cool, but now you have to maintain an electric and gasoline engine. I'm in the market for a new car and when comparing the prices of a new Chevy Volt vs. a new Chevy Bolt, it's not a huge price difference to go all electric and greatly reduce moving parts.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#220

Post by coherentpony »

spectrum1234 wrote: post #217
azinman2 wrote: post #165

For all the talk by liberatians and their ilk that regulation is bad and unnecessary, that chart of median fuel effeciency due to government requirements should give them pause. Wow. Well over a decade of non-progress until a path forward is mandated. Suddently the needle starts moving, with car owners, the environment, and energy import needs as big winners here.

As a libertarian my view is that in the short term often government does act faster than the market. The problem is that the in medium and long term the market can't act.

What does that mean?
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