Open this in IE 11 and scroll below "A new, approachable way to create Web applications" - prepare to laugh!
Same problem on the in-app browser in Boreal (the iOS Hacker News reader I'm using).
Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
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Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#42without a single line of programming code A bold statement that doesn't really seem to be supported by:
Spreadsheets have function calls as well, and yet non-programmers can use them. We don't care about making a theoretically pure distinction, we care about making something that non-programmers can actually use.
I didn't intend to denigrate your work - I think it's really interesting.
However, to advertise it as not being programming seems bogus to me. In Excel, you click the "fx" button and choose "SUM" and then select some cells with your mouse and it pops in there =SUM(A1:A4) for you, which feels in practice quite far from what I would consider programming, and I think people who are non-programmers but have the right sort of mindset can usually fathom this stuff.
The example I quoted above, however, looks a lot more like programming to me, and the nested parentheses alone would be enough to scare off a lot of non-technical types. I have dealt with many people over the years who have to do a bit of programming in their roles but really aren't programmers in the conventional sense, and they find things like the difference between A(B(1,2,3)) and A(B(1,2),3) extremely hard to grasp.
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#43Probably an odd question, but am I the only one who thinks this would have been a godsend about 10-20 years ago?
I mean, it's useful for some cases now (like as mentioned, non programmers wanting to make more dynamic sites), but back then a lot of cheap/free hosting services didn't support any server side scripting.
Something like this would have let you build an ad hoc CMS on a free hosting service like Geocities. Which would have been pretty useful for the utterly skint.
Now though? It's still useful for some people, and I do think it's something I'll test myself at one point, but I feel the easy access to free/cheap hosting for server side scripts has likely cut down on its usefulness a fair bit.
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#44Open this in IE 11 and scroll below "A new, approachable way to create Web applications" - prepare to laugh!
IE 11 is a dead browser. Development stopped 3 years ago. There will never be an IE 12, it's just Edge now (which Mavo works in just fine).
it really depends on your audience. i can tell you that ie11 is alive and well with our customers (ecommerce, home remodeling)
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#45Probably an odd question, but am I the only one who thinks this would have been a godsend about 10-20 years ago? I mean, it's useful for some cases now (like as mentioned, non programmers wanting to make more dynamic sites), but back then a lot of cheap/free hosting services didn't support any server side scripting. Something like this would have let you build an ad hoc CMS on a free hosting service like Geocities. W…
I am not sure but I think it is fair to say something like that would not be possible with speed of javascript engines of 10-20 years ago.
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#46This is a very interesting project, and all attempts to simplify web development at this point are more than welcome. However I really wouldn't call it "a new way to create Web Applications". With such an ambitious title, no wonder folks here are thinking it's on the same category of libraries like Angular.
It looks like a great tool for non-programmers and power-users creating simple CMS kind of sites, which is already a great deal. However, typical Web applications are much more complex than what this tool could possibly do, so I would recommend to reconsider that message. Javascript, servers and databases are not the assembly of the web, there's good reason for their existence and in slightly more complex scenarios they simply can't be abstracted away.
It's not just about the message, it's about settling on a specific audience, and with that, focusing the efforts to provide as much value as possible for them. Trying to stay on the middle term for any generic "web applications" might mean the tool will never be flexible enough for professional web apps nor feature complete enough for non-programmers use cases.
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#47Probably an odd question, but am I the only one who thinks this would have been a godsend about 10-20 years ago? I mean, it's useful for some cases now (like as mentioned, non programmers wanting to make more dynamic sites), but back then a lot of cheap/free hosting services didn't support any server side scripting. Something like this would have let you build an ad hoc CMS on a free hosting service like Geocities. W…
I am not sure but I think it is fair to say something like that would not be possible with speed of javascript engines of 10-20 years ago.
Also, neither the local nor remote storage providers it uses were available 10 years ago.
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#48Reminds me of AngularJS 1.x
I don't recall Angular 1.x having a shared local/remote persistent storage API with built-in local and remote drivers and a storage driver SPI.
There's considera le feature differences in the simple templating functionality of this vs. AngularJS 1.x, as well (Angular seems a bit more powerful overall, but this seems to make some of the common things simpler), but I think it's the storage integration which is more of a fundamental difference.
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#49This kind of work shows a great direction for the future of web development. It's true that the HN community might be more incline to programming than others, however this library makes building web pages user friendly while still keeping it close to the language.
Also, huge props to Lea Verou who's been notable at working on improving the web and CSS!
Re: Mavo – A new, approachable way to create Web applications
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
That cannot be updated by the non-technical people in the company.
And your examples are somehow better readable to "non-tech...company"? How? Better , as compared to...oh wait, not compared to anything, tested on a sample of 20 people. Passing that off as "This is not wishful thinking; it’s published, peer-reviewed research" (your front page) is dishonest at best. And it gets better. Those people in the study were recruited at "local web design meetup groups". Non-technical? How's…
Sometimes I think a static CMS like Lektor may be a better framework to set up. The static nature prevents any of the dynamic exploits but still maintain templating system without adding complexity after the initial setup.
https://www.futurehosting.com/blog/lektor-is-a-static-site-g...