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BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

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Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#71

Post by npiazza83 »

Veen wrote: post #54
nsnick wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter whose business it is, the BBC still can't use communication between you and the BBC to interfere in a relationship you have with your employer that is illegal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference

An analogy I have in mind might help. Say I write book arguing that a marginalized group are in fact responsible for all the evils in society. A publisher chooses to publish that book. Someone decides to send my boss a copy of the book and I get fired. Do I have cause to sue the sender for tortious interference? I don't know what the status of private communications with the BBC would be in this regard, but if you're…

The court treats the actions of individuals on a case by case basis. Your analogy breaks down when codified into a business contract. By stipulating a course of action that may cause real financial harm. Even if they were to stipulate fines or other remedies in response to perceived financial harm on their part the enforcement of such penalties is not their responsibility. They have taken enforcement powers away from the government.

Think of it like this: If I'm a web developer and I haven't received payment for my services I can withhold those services or even retain control of the product I am providing or use the courts to enforce the contract, but if I used the client's credit card info to enforce fines and pay myself I have broken the law regardless of whether I put it in the contract.

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#72

Post by donalhunt »

kijeda wrote: post #4

Seems like this is just a clumsy way of simply saying they are going to contact the administrator of the domain your account is associated with (which may be your employer, school, etc.)

THIS!

Having run a publicly facing messageboard for many years (no auth, just plain old "write what you want (within reason"), we were able to effectively keep the level of spam and abuse off the site with cultural norms within the user base.

In one case, we had someone specifically trolling people on the site. We were able to track the poster back to a particular university in Ireland who we notified via their abuse channel (abuse@domain.xxx I think) with a very generic query:

"we're seeing someone from your network posting crap like this . can you investigate?"

The behaviour stopped pretty quickly afterwards...

Turns out most network operators want to run a network that benefits all it's users. If you abuse that privilege, they have no qualms with disconnecting you!!

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#74

Post by Veen »

chc wrote: post #57
Veen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything you choose to publish on the BBC's website is their business. It's not as though they're going around looking for naughty posts on third-party websites and tattling about it. There is no automatic right to anonymity when posting on someone else's website. If you post something publicly, surely the expectation is that you're fine with anyone seeing it. If the BBC chooses to share that with your boss, why is i…

FYI, many people will perceive this comment of yours as dickish. Do you want everyone to know you're a dick, or do you feel like you're just expressing an opinion and having somebody attempt to personally harm you based on it would be an unreasonable overreaction?

I'm not a relativist. I think that in a civilized society there are standards of behavior that all reasonable people can agree on. Everything I say is premised on that assumption, so you're free to reject the argument if you don't feel such standards exist.

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#75

Post by JdeBP »

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #6

Wow, that's confusing. I know that I know very little about U.K. law, so I would appreciate if someone there could answer: - Do employers typically have law-enforcement duties? - Is there a legal presumption of innocence---until proven otherwise---as there is in the U.S.? - Besides TV Licenses, is the BBC a judicial entity? I'm just trying to understand why the BBC may notify a non-law-enforcement agency about a poss…

A lot of people are reading "will" for "may" and getting quite worked up.

A more charitable reading is that this document is a rather ham-fisted way of saying:

We've stated afore that your IP address is one of the pieces of "personal information" that we collect about you. If you ... do this ... then we will use that information to locate and notify the owner of the computers that you are using, or some point in the chain between those computers and us. Be aware that if the owner of the computers that you are using is your school, your employer, your organization, or your Internet service provider, they are likely who is going to be notified and your use of these computers for this purpose will be disclosed to them.

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#76

Post by jsmthrowaway »

kazinator wrote: post #67
heisenbit wrote: post #8

BBC may want to rethink that. Either it is illegal and then the police and courts are the place or it is legal and then it is none of their business. What they are threatening is when they perceive their TOS are violated that they use personal information and interfere in other relationships. This exposes the BBC to liability e.g. if the person is fired they may ask the BBC to pay up. See also: https://en.wikipedia.o…

Tortious interference occurs only if the BBC carries out their threat. But what is the legal status of the threat itself , not carried out? If there are no legal ramifications from merely threatening to perpetrate tortious interference, then it seems like a useful troll deterrent tool that the BBC has a right to use on their own site.

Tortious interference doesn't occur, in the slightest, whether the BBC carries out their threat or not. The hint is in the word "tortious." Explain the tort. Think about it: complaining to a manager at a fast food restaurant would result in liability for the customer in this world where tortious interference bizarrely applies.

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#77

Post by logicallee »

Veen wrote: post #30
heisenbit wrote: post #8

BBC may want to rethink that. Either it is illegal and then the police and courts are the place or it is legal and then it is none of their business. What they are threatening is when they perceive their TOS are violated that they use personal information and interfere in other relationships. This exposes the BBC to liability e.g. if the person is fired they may ask the BBC to pay up. See also: https://en.wikipedia.o…

Anything you choose to publish on the BBC's website is their business. It's not as though they're going around looking for naughty posts on third-party websites and tattling about it. There is no automatic right to anonymity when posting on someone else's website. If you post something publicly, surely the expectation is that you're fine with anyone seeing it. If the BBC chooses to share that with your boss, why is i…

>There is no automatic right to anonymity when posting on someone else's website.

Put another way, anyone who posts anything on your site, you have a right to discover the name of. Do you agree with this satement? Do you agree that YCombinator, owner of the site you are posting this on, has a right to investigate and discover your name? (Which you are not posting under.)

For me, I would think that would be the case if you cross a certain line. They do not have the right to discover that you're actually (celebrity investor) and then, since of course you have "no right to anonymity", publish the fact that (celebrity investor) comments here.

I think this example logically proves that in fact you do have a right to post anonymously. (Since if you didn't, sites would have a right to go to any length to discover your identity.) Or what am I missing? I might have a flaw in the deduction made in this comment and am open to someone pointing it out.

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#78

Post by chc »

Veen wrote: post #74
chc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, many people will perceive this comment of yours as dickish. Do you want everyone to know you're a dick, or do you feel like you're just expressing an opinion and having somebody attempt to personally harm you based on it would be an unreasonable overreaction?

I'm not a relativist. I think that in a civilized society there are standards of behavior that all reasonable people can agree on. Everything I say is premised on that assumption, so you're free to reject the argument if you don't feel such standards exist.

I certainly agree such standards exist. But one of those standards of behavior that reasonable people agree to seems to be "Don't try to ruin people's lives just because they hold unpopular opinions." The people I know who do believe in that kind of vigilante justice against ideological opponents are not at all what I'd describe as reasonable. Like, do you look at Joseph McCarthy and his supporters and say, "There was a bunch of reasonable folks"?

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#79

Post by zo1 »

mavdi wrote: post #15
drspacemonkey wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem comes down to the definition of "harassment". I've encountered my fair share of people, some in positions of authority and/or should know better, who honestly believe that disagreement or impolite comments constitute "harassment". Frankly, I'm not at all comfortable with a global media outlet reserving the right to try to get people fired in private for internet comments.

How about we start with racism? Some things are a grey area but some are downright harassment.

You make that sound so simple with "racism". Yet here we are, 2017, and we still have swathes of people that think it's A-OK to be racist towards white people (or sexist towards men). And it magically doesn't count as racism because something something "institutionalized" magic definitions.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2017/04/17/Huffington-Post-...

We can't even hold media, individual reporters or even public officials to account for posting false stories or false claims.

Re: BBC Says It May Contact Your Boss If You Post Comments It Finds Problematic

#80

Post by kazinator »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #76
kazinator wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tortious interference occurs only if the BBC carries out their threat. But what is the legal status of the threat itself , not carried out? If there are no legal ramifications from merely threatening to perpetrate tortious interference, then it seems like a useful troll deterrent tool that the BBC has a right to use on their own site.

Tortious interference doesn't occur, in the slightest, whether the BBC carries out their threat or not. The hint is in the word "tortious." Explain the tort. Think about it: complaining to a manager at a fast food restaurant would result in liability for the customer in this world where tortious interference bizarrely applies.

This is like complaining to a manager at a fast food restaurant because of some personal problem with the fast food employee, outside of the context of being served by that employee. The perpetrator is "getting even" with that person by trying to stir up problems for them at work. Maybe they met at a party last weekend, and the one insulted the other's girlfriend or whatever; nothing to do with hamburgers.

If you have a problem with service and complain to a manager, then you're clearly not a "third party"; the contract between the employee and fast food restaurant has everything to do with serving you.

Note that the BBC are not saying that they will contact your employer only if it can be determined that you used the employer's time and equipment to post the comments. Even if you post those comments using your own residential internet connection on your own time, they threaten to contact your employer.

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