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Swift is like Kotlin

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Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#231

Post by d0100 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #144
AsyncAwait wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This sounds really stupid, considering that many Ukrainian programmers are already using JetBrains products and that punishing a great company for the actions of politicians is kind of sad.

Would you work in a programming language called Hitler? Any multinational company needs to do their research before deciding on a name.

I would, as long as it can replace Java.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#232

Post by JoeAltmaier »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #230
kybernetikos wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't get to tell people what to name things just because you're offended. Sure you do, and you get to say your reasons too, refuse to adopt something based on those reasons and try to persuade other people and organizations to accept your reasons. You even get to apply mild sanctions - like not buying things from them or discouraging others from interacting with the person who did the thing that offended you.…

This, thank you. So many people seem to think that freedom of speech == freedom from consequences. The reality is that freedom of speech == freedom from government consequences.

Kind of. That's the law of course. But freedom of speech, in America at least, is also a principle of our Republic. We should all strive to encourage this freedom. To attempt to quash someone from speaking their mind is morally wrong, and is actually un-American.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#233

Post by AsyncAwait »

epmaybe wrote: post #188
AsyncAwait wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating a programming language named after a Russian island to Hitler is a real stretch, unless you think that everything Russian is like Hitler. It's just an island and a language named after it.

Sure, but that's not really answering the question is it. I think I wouldn't necessarily put that I use Hitler on my CV, due to the negative feedback I would receive from others not in the field. But on the other hand, barely anyone in the United States has even heard of the island Kotlin, so I'd feel more comfortable doing that.

> I think I wouldn't necessarily put that I use Hitler on my CV, due to the negative feedback I would receive from others not in the field.

But Kotlin IS NOT equivalent to Hitler AT ALL, Kotlin is like if you named your programming language "Texas" and somebody objected to the name, because "there are defence contractors located in Texas".

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#234

Post by kyrra »

_pmf_ wrote: post #225
piotrkubisa wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Google will try to replace Java with Dart, because they have recently been focused on Flutter [1] [2] and Fuschia [2] development which are (mostly) C++ and DartLang stack. [1]: https://flutter.io/ [2]: https://github.com/flutter/ [3]: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror

> I assume Google will try to replace Java with Dart I would have expected this, but not after pushing Kotlin. Kotlin is shiny enough to temporarily distract the typical developer from the daily struggles with the abysmal Android API. Kotlin and Java it will be for the next 10 years, for better or worse. Dart is not very popular within Google itself, and Fuchsia is nothing more than a paid hobby project[0]. [0] See h…

Interesting link. One of the relies to the review of fuchsia gives a different view as to why there are inefficiencies in it:

..."All of the things you mentioned have known solutions making it easy to improve down the road."...[0]

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6a026o/googles...

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#235

Post by AsyncAwait »

esrauch wrote: post #209
filomeno wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the name of an individual have to do with that of an island? Wayland: I think it's the name of some America place. Should afghans, syrians, viets, [put whatever country the US invaded] stick to X11 because of this?

I think it depends on more nuance than that: I do think it would be reasonable for people to avoid a language called Guantanamo because of the name associations. Wayland happens to be a place in MA but I'm from near there and even I had no idea or prior associations with that name because of the place.

Kotlin is not the military base, it is an island. Would you object to a language named "Cuba"?

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#236

Post by douche »

wruza wrote: post #159
kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

Can we please not raise topics like this here? In fact, ukrainians don't give a damn about few nationalists like this for whom it "hurts" and will never consider an origin of the language name, not to mention that idiotic [island name - country name - evil status] associativity. Most people in the world are sane, please don't get tricked into internet-bs easily.

Predictably, a third of this discussion has now gotten derailed into bikeshedding about names, yet again.

If you haven't seen it, go watch the episode from the TV animated Dilbert show, "The Name" - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1afila_dilbert-s01e01-the-...

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#237

Post by Slaul »

JonCox wrote: post #166
kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

It's bad, but the name could be worse: https://www.cockroachlabs.com

I don't see anything wrong with the name. It seems like an implication of being as resilient as a cockroach.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#239

Post by lmm »

3chelon wrote: post #138
Jach wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple heuristic: if a developer has a hissy fit over the project names of Coq, Brainfuck, or Stalin, don't work with them.

Ah, but is there a line? Where does it get drawn? Without explicitly naming them, once you get into the realm of Stalinism or the holocaust, surely it wouldn't take too much imagination to come up with a few names too unsavoury even for you?

I genuinely struggle to think of a name that I would object to. I mean you could "name" your language a manifesto that I wouldn't want to be associated with, sure, but a name that's clearly (from context) acting as a name is just a name.
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