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Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

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Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#271

Post by Mouse47 »

basicplus2 wrote: post #215
imgabe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just die when you're old? Maybe that sounds harsh, but being bedridden for 12 years doesn't sound like any idea of a good life to me. The old die to make way and free up resources for the young. That's the way it's supposed to work.

Let me know how you feel about that when your old

My grandfather had a stroke two weeks ago. It affected 3/4 of the left side of his brain, which means he couldn't speak (except for 'shit', 'god damn', 'yes/no') and couldn't swallow. Or walk, obviously.

He told us repeatedly while he was alive that he didn't want to be put in a home. He wanted to cut his grass, feed the birds and be left alone - and after the stroke there was no way he could do that. We respected his wishes and opted out of the feeding tube, but he essentially starved to death. No fluids, no food for two weeks. Those two weeks burnt up all of his savings.

Everyone in my family agrees that it'd be better if assisted suicide were legal. No starving, no pain - just a nitrogen mask, and you don't even know you're dying.

Frankly, I find your 'older-and-wiser' posturing disgusting. Obviously it should be their choice, but today it's not their choice - the government says they must suffer and starve to death.

edit for less meanness

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#272

Post by mannykannot »

Mouse47 wrote: post #271
basicplus2 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me know how you feel about that when your old

My grandfather had a stroke two weeks ago. It affected 3/4 of the left side of his brain, which means he couldn't speak (except for 'shit', 'god damn', 'yes/no') and couldn't swallow. Or walk, obviously. He told us repeatedly while he was alive that he didn't want to be put in a home. He wanted to cut his grass, feed the birds and be left alone - and after the stroke there was no way he could do that. We respected hi…

Basicplus appears to be responding to imgabe's second paragraph, which seems to suggest that euthanasia should be an obligation, not a choice.

The legalization of euthanasia raises some moral questions with respect to coercion and self-serving misrepresentation, but in cases like your grandfather's, where a decision has been made, those concerns no longer apply.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#273

Post by brianwawok »

justin66 wrote: post #222
brianwawok wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get fine healthcare for free when you are old in the US. You just gotta be broke first. So it's a fine line to work....

Anyone who wants to test this assertion - that "fine healthcare" equal to what a wealthy retiree gets is available to all - should go to a nursing home that offers care for normal and purely medicare-supported patients. You don't have to study the situation really closely to get what I'm driving at. The patients will generally stay in separate areas. Just walk around and use your sense of smell.

Or if you want actual truth, interview people at said missing home.

Person A was rich, her 500k in savings was all spent to provide her care at a rate of 5k per month until it is gone.

Person B had 100k to her name. She paid the nursing home 5k per month until it was gone. Then care is free until the money runs out.

Person C had 0 money. They paid $0 from day 1.

All three got the same medical care. All three got the same food. Maybe person A spring for a private room vs a shared room... But otherwise all would be the same.

Nursing homes in general aren't great. Hopefully you can stay out of them. Eating well and exercising seem to help. If not, money won't do much.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#274

Post by cko »

ransom1538 wrote: post #81
dsmithatx wrote: post #61

My grandfather worked at Exxon Mobile for 60 years and retired around 1988 with a few million dollars in stock. I remember my dad saying he had about 3 Million in stock he purchased as his retirement plan. He built a house and bought a couple of nice cars living on about 100,000 a year. About 12 years ago he had a heart attack and stroke and was bed ridden. 12 years of doctor bills and hospice ate through almost ever…

Whatever you save with your blood, sweat and tears (if you are lucky) will be blown on medical expenses. The trick is to convert to cash (literal), then give it to your wife, convert medical expenses to debt and die.

Unfortunately, this is probably the best hack. Put assets in some kind of trust, then have the American taxpayer pay for those expensive last years. I am a pharmacist at a long term care pharmacy, and assisted livings in my area charge up to $8000 a month. Their model seems to be 1. Drain your assets until you qualify for Medicaid, 2. Move you from your private suite to a slightly shittier shared room. I believe Medicaid pays around $3000 a month. And that's only for a place to sleep and a med tech or patient care assistant be on site 24/7. Many of these places don't have nurses after 8pm. Do you want employees to give you your mess? How about an extra $500 a month?

All that money doesn't get you superior results. I talk to some of the more coherent patients all the time on the phone. The lonelier ones keep me on the line for longer. I can't help but think there is a better model.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#275

Post by squozzer »

martin1975 wrote: post #153
was_boring wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in a similar situation about what to do with an elderly relative with dementia who is currently in limbo after the last relative taking care of him died. The best moral option is to take guardianship and look after him. The best financial decision is to "divorce" from the situation and let the state take care of him so I have a chance of my wife and I being able to retire and saving for the kid's educat…

You know the Golden rule, no? It's as true as 2+2=4.

A certain fictional character named O'Brien might have a problem with your assertion.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#276

Post by squozzer »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #111

Have you watched television or listened to radio aimed at older viewers / listeners? If it isn't about the upcoming apocalypse and how you need all the gold in the world that you haven't spent on supplies for your armageddon shelter, it's about Fred Thompson selling you reverse mortgages. Nobody's easier to scare than people who feel their vitality slipping away from them day by day.

You might be a bit behind the times -- Tom Selleck pitches reverse mortgages now.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#277

Post by mgiannopoulos »

ransom1538 wrote: post #81
dsmithatx wrote: post #61

My grandfather worked at Exxon Mobile for 60 years and retired around 1988 with a few million dollars in stock. I remember my dad saying he had about 3 Million in stock he purchased as his retirement plan. He built a house and bought a couple of nice cars living on about 100,000 a year. About 12 years ago he had a heart attack and stroke and was bed ridden. 12 years of doctor bills and hospice ate through almost ever…

Whatever you save with your blood, sweat and tears (if you are lucky) will be blown on medical expenses. The trick is to convert to cash (literal), then give it to your wife, convert medical expenses to debt and die.

I was surprised to see that the article hardly mentions the logical fear of huge medical bills that are quite frequent in the US.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#278

Post by cableshaft »

djsumdog wrote: post #36
RangerScience wrote: post #10

Fuck. I'm 30, and I just went through this. I quit a bad job to try to do my own thing; after a few months without a paycheck - despite having plenty of saving six ways from Sunday - I clammed up almost completely, not wanting to spend a dime. I was miserable. It's the same feeling as item hoarding in CRPGs. Seems like I either need to never retire, or set up a trust for myself so I have a guaranteed allowance. (Or d…

It is tough. I've taken a sabbatical before: http://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ ..and I'm about to take another one: http://penguindreams.org/videos/taking-a-sabbatical/ I think I'm in better shape this time. I'll take a tech job if I drop below $10k (just savings, not retirement). Last time I was on fumes. I mean why wait till you retire? You could be hit by a truck or slip in your tub and die (or with my lu…

Do you mind sharing how much you're starting out with, and how little you plan to spend each month? Curious how feasible this could be for me.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#279

Post by squozzer »

Apparently the author thinks transferring wealth to one's heirs is a bad thing, but transferring it to insurance companies and nursing homes is not. But let's continue.

"What can get rich elderly Americans spending more? One way is to reassure them they’re not going to run out of cash. Tools such as annuities and bond-ladders can turn a retirement account into a regular stream of income, mimicking a paycheck. Insurance products could also protect retirees against huge, late-in-life expenses from medical care—a dominant fear. Browning likes longevity insurance, an annuity that kicks in only if you live to 80 or 85. Other options are reverse mortgages or long-term care insurance."

With only a brief comment on health care costs (>10% yearly increases), let's discuss the various solutions --

Annuities - take your nest egg that rode decades of market fluctuations, and give it to another company to ride another decade or two of market fluctuations in exchange for a fixed monthly distribution. Never mind that every 401(k) plan I ever had would start paying you out of your acct after you reached 59.5 if you wanted it, and HAS to pay you out of your acct once you reach 70.5.

The various forms of insurance noted have a couple of things in common -- 1) they are overpriced relative to the benefit provided; 2) The benefit will be known and factored into the cost of your healthcare, thanks to the miracle of the SSN.

The best deal mentioned might be the reverse mortgage, but only if your heirs wouldn't need your house - which in my experience, they don't, but in 20 years, with current employment and social trends, who knows?

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#280

Post by stupidhn »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #135
stupidhn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdoing any of each of your examples is a waste of resources, just like dying with a pile of cash.

You can engineer wiring to be the right size for the 99% use case. You can't do that with savings.

>You can engineer wiring to be the right size for the 99% use case. You can't do that with savings.

This is not remotely correct.

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