Reminds me of getting Bait-and-Switch'd by Google App Engine in 2011. From 10's of euros to 1000's. > They have no phone number to contact, no way to dispute this other than email — which they have ignored us for over a month now without replying to our continued requests. Trapped. Doomed. We have no further options. Sounds like Google did a great job with Firebase. Definitely gives you that Google-feel of unresponsi…
Oh I'm glad my Google App Engine service never became popular!
A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
261–270 of 516 posts
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except the young ones that know how to use the tech, can go: Hey this portion of my load is HIGHLY flexible. I can use a very simple celery queue to scale this out to 1000 preemptible instances, and pay literally peanuts to harness the power of 1000 computers for the 30 minutes I need it, then shut it down for the other 23.5 hours a day. There are a wide range of ways to do things. From Heroku to Bare Metal to EC2 to…
I think I exempted the exact scenario you mentioned. Windows, like Linux, is a great OS, IF you know what you're doing and a terrible OS IF you don't. My point is, hardware matters and abstracting it has real cost in terms of control, performance, and dollars as the OP has now learned.
Of course hardware matters. Of course it is embarrassing to have your entire business model crushed by how you built your product. It happens in many ways.
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#263Google is famous for not having any humans in support. One robot will write abuse on you and another robot will happily oblige and ban you with no appellation possible. Building whole business on one of such platforms takes some "courage" :) .
What you said is quite untrue. I know - because I am one of those humans in support grins . I work in the support organisation for GSuite (formerly Google Apps). And I work across the hall from the guys who support GCP (Google Cloud Platform). And there are an entire army of us, helping support many, many enterprise customers. Even our consumer products have real people manning support phones - I know, because I've h…
He was from the Philippines, and it turned out he was a contractor providing "support" for Google Cloud. So I guess Google is outsourcing their support? Isn't this something Dell tried to do in the 90's with disastrous results?
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#264Reminds me of getting Bait-and-Switch'd by Google App Engine in 2011. From 10's of euros to 1000's. > They have no phone number to contact, no way to dispute this other than email — which they have ignored us for over a month now without replying to our continued requests. Trapped. Doomed. We have no further options. Sounds like Google did a great job with Firebase. Definitely gives you that Google-feel of unresponsi…
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Synchronizing data in real-time is computationally expensive No, its not. I was responsible for implementing, deploying and managing the infrastructure at lever.co when we were a tiny fledgeling startup. The entire application is built on top of JSON OT. I took some measurements at one point when we had ~thousands of active browser sessions of our app. At the time we were seeing about 1-2 OT merges (transform + re-…
I guess it somewhat depends what kind of OT we're talking about (text or JSON). In any case, I don't think that the bottleneck would be the OT algorithm itself - More likely, the bottleneck would be the number of messages (HTTP requests or WebSocket frames) required to send each individual operation between the client and server. If you have text-based OT and you send an operation over the wire each time a user press…
The whole point of OT is that it lets you fearlessly merge concurrent edits. You can lean on that to rate limit messages to or from the client, if you need to. Because the client can always apply its own edits immediately to its own local model, there's no perceived latency. So, if you design your system right you can batch up changes at any granularity you like (per page, per form, per second, dynamically based on load, whatever). Of course, the tradeoff is that you lean on the OT system more by batching up edits. But it can be made effectively free to transform if the edits modify different parts of the database (using range trees to cull, etc).
But yeah - it is much faster than differential transform. I'm not sure how good diffing algorithms are in practice, but best case they need to scan the entire document. On the other hand OT only requires size & computation proportional to how much was changed. If we're collaboratively editing a 10kb text file, changes will mostly only be a few bytes each. And applying each change using a good rope library is a O(log n) operation.
Of course, all this requires a database which supports OT out of the box whistles innocently
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you not pay for support? It starts at $150..
The idea of having to pay extra to talk to them about their screw up is pretty laughable.
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#267Google is famous for not having any humans in support. One robot will write abuse on you and another robot will happily oblige and ban you with no appellation possible. Building whole business on one of such platforms takes some "courage" :) .
What you said is quite untrue. I know - because I am one of those humans in support grins . I work in the support organisation for GSuite (formerly Google Apps). And I work across the hall from the guys who support GCP (Google Cloud Platform). And there are an entire army of us, helping support many, many enterprise customers. Even our consumer products have real people manning support phones - I know, because I've h…
But man this is business, this is the stuff the global economy runs on 24/7, I hope you all are tougher than that...
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
This works well in India, with 2-factor auth — Indian companies can't charge my debit or credit card just because they have the card number, expiry and CVV. I have to approve each transaction with my bank. I'm wary of giving my card information to companies outside India because I don't have this protection.
>Indian companies can't charge my debit or credit card just because they have the card number, expiry and CVV. I have to approve each transaction with my bank. True for Indian companies but what if you get charged via Forex abroad? For me - Google or Steam - don't required 2FA. All I have to do is to enter my number, confirm CVV then zap. It gets debited. I do get a call from my bank (HDFC) asking if this transaction…
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't sound like it's the 'serverless' hosting that is their issue, rather that they have no direct control over the endpoint that their difficult to upgrade client software is hitting. They actually fix it in future versions of the client software by putting controllable serverless endpoints in front of the firebase endpoints they're hitting, so if something like this occurs again they could just change their e…
The more general problem with serverless architectures that this post illustrates is that you're essentially running on a series of FAAS/SAAS style services which can change their billing at any time. So you either have to code a portability layer so you can move to another one in the event of an unwanted change (which could be quite a lot of work), or you accept the risk that a 3rd party could cost you a lot of mone…
Re: A startup’s Firebase bill suddenly increased from $25 to $1750 per month
#270One day they'll just realize they've lost, partly due to their shit attitude to customer support, and close their public cloud.
FFS if you run a public cloud you've just damn well GOT to understand you can never cut off the customer service for any reason, especially "because your site got too busy".
What a bunch of PhDs.
The reason Google is so deeply unwilling to engage its customers to provide support is in the DNA of the company - they are all PhDs, and how many PhDs have the slightest idea of how to help and talk to a customer.