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The Boring Company FAQ

boringcompany.com

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Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#141

>By placing vehicles on a stabilized electric sled, the diameter can be reduced to less than 14 feet. Interesting. No chance of large commerical vehicles in tunnels at that size.

Nothing carrying objects more than 14 feet in their shortest dimension (minus whatever the sled wheels take up), but that is only a very small portion of commercial traffic.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities like LA will become denser over time. It might seem counterintuitive but increasing density alleviate traffic (people walk). You can't clean a hotel or flip a burger remote. Public transit has failed to solve the problem despite a 100-year head start. Cycling... in LA... I don't think the Boring Company is trying to solve the gridlock. They will, however, provide an option for those who can afford to pop down…

Exactly. Cycling in LA is suicide.

Solve this problem by actually building protected cycling infrastructure and you'll make cycling viable and increase the amount of cyclists.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to know more about this. Check valves [1] do just this, and they work without energy input, what is the difference ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_valve

Something that can discriminate without energy input is a form of Maxwell's Demon. If you are unfamiliar, it's a lot of fun to learn about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_demon is a reasonable start. Check valves absolutely do consume energy. Something has to resist the spring forcing them closed, or they would never open. They are convenient in that their energy is sourced from the very thing they are con…

Higher air pressure could provide the necessary energy.

There are easier ways to get moisture out of a tunnel though.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#144
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also by going underground. Tokyo's metro is fantastic and one of the few globally that has more than 100% farebox recover ratio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio#Farebox...

> more than 100% farebox recover ratio Doesn't this just mean that they are expensive? I heard complaints about how expensive Tokyo's subway is. Reducing price and propping the system with tax can be a better approach in the long term, because that can encourage more people to use public transit and reduce demand for costly highways. (Also, one could argue that the freedom to move around at an affordable price is a b…

For those wondering, it costs 4-5 USD one way.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#145
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also by going underground. Tokyo's metro is fantastic and one of the few globally that has more than 100% farebox recover ratio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio#Farebox...

> more than 100% farebox recover ratio Doesn't this just mean that they are expensive? I heard complaints about how expensive Tokyo's subway is. Reducing price and propping the system with tax can be a better approach in the long term, because that can encourage more people to use public transit and reduce demand for costly highways. (Also, one could argue that the freedom to move around at an affordable price is a b…

I can only speak from experience for Hong Kong's MTR system. It has over 100% farebox recovery as well. Fares are distance-based [0] so it's hard to tell, but the average seems to be US$1.20 or so per person (unless you are traveling to Shenzhen) one way, which doesn't include transfers to the privately-run buses. If you believe in the Big Mac index at all this doesn't seem to be much more expensive compared to the US. (Note that it doesn't include transfers to buses.)

But the MTR actually was subsidized by the government, which let MTR Corporation develop the land above the subway to make malls and stuff, which they make even more money on. Presumably some of this profit gets reinvested into the system itself.

0: http://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/tickets/octopus_fares.html

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#146
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokyo is a much bigger city. They solved the problem by building elevated toll highways. Much simpler solution than digging new holes everywhere and keeping those silly carts running.

Living in another crowded city, Hong Kong, perhaps I can offer some perspective: We have tons of elevated tools highways and bypasses aimed at reducing traffic, the problem is all these elevated roads needs to go around a lot of tall buildings. Going underground with subway already provides us with better solution to a lot more of our traffic problem. What the boring company's proposing isn't all that different from…

That's the difference though, they're not talking about putting tons of people down there, they're talking about putting a small handful at a time (at most) by using cars. It appears much less efficient.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#147
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also by going underground. Tokyo's metro is fantastic and one of the few globally that has more than 100% farebox recover ratio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio#Farebox...

> more than 100% farebox recover ratio Doesn't this just mean that they are expensive? I heard complaints about how expensive Tokyo's subway is. Reducing price and propping the system with tax can be a better approach in the long term, because that can encourage more people to use public transit and reduce demand for costly highways. (Also, one could argue that the freedom to move around at an affordable price is a b…

I was in Tokyo recently. You can cross most of the city by subway/train for ~300 yen, or $2.66 USD at today's change rate. Compare to San Francisco, where I live. A Muni ticket is around $2.25, and a BART ticket ~$4... both with much worse service and smaller coverage.

You could argue, perhaps, that the price is expensive relative to what Japanese people earn, but from my impression it was a very effective and reasonably priced public transportation system.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#148
post #74
post #61

So, the key ideas are: - Smaller diameter tunnels. 14' is suggested. This is slightly larger than the deep London Tube lines. - Electrically powered TBMs. Those exist. However, often the business end of the machine is hydraulically powered. Musk is probably thinking of going all electric, at least for the cutter head. After all, he has lots of experience with high-torque electric motors. - Do cutting and tunnel ring…

Yeah this is all very odd and everyone is lapping it up. He claims to want to reduce tunneling costs by a factor of 10, but starts by quoting a very high benchmark of $1 billion per mile which is quite easy to beat. Then he reduces diameters to something much smaller than all the expensive mega projects, into the range of something where technology is well established and costs are already 1/10th of his quoted $1 bil…

> But then we should ask why don't we do that anyway?

Sure. Why didn't we have electric cars before tesla? Why didn't Boeing or Lockheed Martin make reusable rockets?

Alan Kay said something[1] recently that has been bouncing around my head for the past few days. He said that many people think darwinian processes (like the economy) optimize. "One my degrees is in molecular biology, and I can tell you, any biologist would say they're absolutely not optimized. The whole point is to fit into some niche in an environment. And if the environment isn't the right kind of environment evolution isn't going to give you something interesting".

In the context of the economy, if there's no innovation, and not enough competition, and no new players entering a market, I don't think its all that surprising that the existing companies might stop reaching to be more efficient.

It seems strange to think that companies would leave money on the table, but in older industries I think this is exactly what happens. The money just requires too much organizational churn for their corporate appetite.

[1] https://youtu.be/DIR6Rmhm3To?t=54m17s

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#149

The old strategy of hiding your outlandish claim in an assertion in the first sentence! "To solve the problem of soul-destroying traffic, roads must go 3D" The word "must" is a very strong one here, there are other options: * Reduce the amount of travel that people need to do (remote work, online shopping). * Reduce the density of cities (enabled by remote work or longer commutes with better internet access). * Incre…

Those avenues are already being pursued. He's pursuing one that is not. That's a good thing.

Not every avenue not actively pursued is a good one though, I think thats the question people are asking.

Re: The Boring Company FAQ

#150
> Secondly, increase the speed of the Tunnel Boring Machine (TBM). TBMs are super slow. A snail is effectively 14 times faster than a soft-soil TBM. Our goal is to defeat the snail in a race.

I can imagine them at parties:

"So what do you do for a living?"

"Our company is trying to win a race from a snail."

"Hahah-- wait you're serious? What kinda company is that?"

"The Boring Company."

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