Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear • Hacker News Board

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#101

Post by reustle » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:45 PM UTC

ransom1538 wrote: post #81

dsmithatx wrote: post #61

My grandfather worked at Exxon Mobile for 60 years and retired around 1988 with a few million dollars in stock. I remember my dad saying he had about 3 Million in stock he purchased as his retirement plan. He built a house and bought a couple of nice cars living on about 100,000 a year. About 12 years ago he had a heart attack and stroke and was bed ridden. 12 years of doctor bills and hospice ate through almost ever…

Whatever you save with your blood, sweat and tears (if you are lucky) will be blown on medical expenses. The trick is to convert to cash (literal), then give it to your wife, convert medical expenses to debt and die.

The trick is to move to a country with proper healthcare

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#102

Post by blhack » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:46 PM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #92

blhack wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is tough, man. Some things I did when I was younger that helped me with this: 1) Go for a period of time (I did a month) living off of rice and beans (as far as I can find, the cheapest way to get close to a complete meal)[1] 2) Pare down everything in your life that isn't absolutely necessary. I put my bed in storage and lived in a hammock for a year. Cut out hot water for a period, stuff like that. Once you do…

This is pretty brilliant. Definitely part of my stress was my rent; and I never felt bad spending money on groceries. I'm always tempted to do something like this anyway; the minimalist approach really appeals to me.

Don't get too bogged down in being a minimalist, though. You definitely don't have to get rid of everything in your house or anything.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#103

Post by asdfjlkasdf88 » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:48 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #71

asdfjlkasdf88 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we should rethink the under pinnings of our culture rather than continue pushing "excessive material consumption"? Seems strange to live on the notions of man who lived before today's environmental concerns became cause for alarm.

I'm certainly not advocating conspicuous consumption and needless spending. However, these individual actions might collectively have unintended consequences, and that's what the paradox of thrift is about. It's a descriptive concept (i.e. about what happens in the real world), not a normative one (i.e. what people ought to do). But before you decide what one ought to do, it is best to take into account what actually…

I get you. Keynes is often distilled as, for better or worse, "Go shopping." My jump off point is usually there when talking to folks in meatspace.

But yeah, it could mean spend more on bridges, universities, or jewel studded iPhone cases.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#104

Post by stupidhn » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:48 PM UTC

Artlav wrote: post #97

stupidhn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should you save more than you need? What good does it do?

Why are buildings built with 3 times the structural integrity than they need? Why are wires several times thicker than they need to carry the power the house needs? Why are hammers much harder than nails? It's called redundancy - you can never predict exactly what the needs would be, so you leave a healthy safety margin.

Overdoing any of each of your examples is a waste of resources, just like dying with a pile of cash.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#105

Post by neolefty » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:49 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #3

Fear? Seems more that there are simply no safe investments with decent returns, interest rates are abysmal. I think folks are 'hoarding' simply to not run out by the time they die. Low interest rates are painted as great for the economy, but they amount to a war on savers and fixed incomes.

The rates are low precisely because there is an oversupply of saved money. In other words, capital is so easy to get that nobody has to pay much interest on it. It's a borrower's market and will continue to be as long as we have the concept of "saving for retirement".

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#106

Post by tobyjsullivan » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:50 PM UTC

This graph in particular left me confused.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ib_EJj3p7cW...

So, in 1974, Americans didn't have retirement savings? Or the total sum was just too small to display on the graph?

Or is this just graphing one particular type of easily measurable asset which was introduced around then and has grown in popularity...

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#107

Post by ppurka » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:50 PM UTC

On one hand there are articles saying young people don't have enough savings, and on the other hand there are these articles ruing that the older generation don't spend more.

Maybe we need to check which kind of industries are sponsoring the respective articles.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#108

Post by neolefty » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:52 PM UTC

kanetkarster wrote: post #5

“We have to get people comfortable with enjoying their retirement and spending their money,” Fellowes said. Implying that the only way to enjoy retirement involves spending money

It's a cart before the horse problem.

His argument is that the economy is imbalanced by excessive saving, and it needs retirees to spend more. He's trying to come up with a reason for them to do it.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#109

Post by megablast » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:52 PM UTC

charlieflowers wrote: post #6

> "As a result, millions of Americans are living too frugally" WTF, really? Reminds me of Edward Bernays [1], the "father of public relations", who set out to help Americans become materialistic (and succeeded!). If someone is enjoying their life without blowing all their money, that person is BETTER off. It's just corporations that want to suck the money away from them that need to "train them to spend." [1] https:/…

You have a very simplistic view of this.

This is looking at why people are living more frugally? If people want to buy less/travel less, then that is no problem. If they are doing it because they are worried about the future, that is a problem.

Spending has an effect on not just those people, but on all of society when it happens at a large enough level. And it is one of the common way to pass money from old to young.

Re: Rich Retirees Are Hoarding Cash Out of Fear

#110

Post by trynumber9 » Tue, May 16, 2017, 11:53 PM UTC

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #106

This graph in particular left me confused. https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ib_EJj3p7cW... So, in 1974, Americans didn't have retirement savings? Or the total sum was just too small to display on the graph? Or is this just graphing one particular type of easily measurable asset which was introduced around then and has grown in popularity...

Pensions before. 401K and IRA now.