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A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

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Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#311

Post by Markoff »

valuearb wrote: post #272
Markoff wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is Comcast one of the most famous companies in world having few hundred billion of cash available? since i am hardly familiar with them (ISP, carrier?) outside US i doubt that it's like thinking Microsoft can't make things done in Redmond or Google in Palo alto

The point is we don't want companies to do this, so why expect that Apple should?

you don't want companies do what? stop building massive useless parking lots blocking local roads with thousands of cars instead of helping with local public transport, leaving nature untouched and easing the roads?

wow, you got me there, sure the other option would be much worse... let's strictly follow dumb rules instead of trying to change them for people benefit

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#312

Post by kerbalspacepro »

Markoff wrote: post #270
sametmax wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. It's only an office because apple is a company. That could have been the great pyramids, saint sophia or notre dame. Your calculations are off because you don't realize that while a lot of servants are enjoying their life in the castle, it's been built for the royal family and its court.

it's just massive boring circle and i can show you immediately dozen more interesting buildings now pyramids at the time of construction were massive engineering, this is just dumb boring building

I can show you a dozen more interesting looking phones than an iPhone, but an iPhone is still an iPhone.

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#313

Post by dionidium »

threeseed wrote: post #281
valuearb wrote: post #220

“It’s an obsolete model that doesn’t address the work conditions of the future,” says Louise Mozingo, an urban design professor at UC Berkeley." Everyone should note that Louise Mozingo has criticized the Apple campus from not having large open floor plans where employees can stare at each other across narrow tables and "collaborate" by yelling to one another over their co-workers heads. She simply doesn't get how so…

> She simply doesn't get how software developers work. It's not just software developers. A significant percentage of the population are or lean towards being introverted i.e. social interactions do not make them necessarily happier or more productive. And experts have been saying that being creative requires some periods of interaction and some periods of solitude. Seems like office spaces should reflect that.

I wish this were better accepted. You can list out the benefits of pair programming until the sun burns out, but, all things equal, I'm going to choose the job that comes without the soul-crushing anxiety of sharing a keyboard with another human being every day.

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#314

Post by sametmax »

Markoff wrote: post #270
sametmax wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. It's only an office because apple is a company. That could have been the great pyramids, saint sophia or notre dame. Your calculations are off because you don't realize that while a lot of servants are enjoying their life in the castle, it's been built for the royal family and its court.

it's just massive boring circle and i can show you immediately dozen more interesting buildings now pyramids at the time of construction were massive engineering, this is just dumb boring building

"Massive" being the key word here.

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#315

Post by kerbalspacepro »

jonknee wrote: post #119
asimpletune wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely agree with your car comment, and to that point would temper that statement by cautioning not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Cars are, presently, an unavoidable fact of life. This is a shame, but all else considered it's the best possible outcome with the present circumstances. Things will improve however, one day. About the open office plan, I don't think that's the case at all. I don't know…

> Cars are, presently, an unavoidable fact of life. This is a shame, but all else considered it's the best possible outcome with the present circumstances. Things will improve however, one day. Indeed, I am currently looking out my window at several Amazon office towers that most employees didn't drive to.

why do my packages keep getting to my house a day earlier than i expect?

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#316

Post by valuearb »

Markoff wrote: post #302
valuearb wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They spent the money and effort on making it functional so that employees can best enjoy their time there. Zaha Hadid designs beautiful but dysfunctional buildings.

enjoy time in those prison cubicles? they would better off let them work from home than in this prison environment nice design from outside doesn't mean it can't be practical inside

We have one picture of the pods. You prefer to believe they are in windowless prison halls, I prefer to believe that most will have adequate natural light from windows. We'll soon find out who is right about that.

If Apple was Facebook or most modern web companies, the extra expensive of pods would have been spared to cram employees to stare at each other across tables in massive noisy rooms, usually with adequate natural light.

In this case Apple clearly is putting employees and their productivity first. At least they didn't choose Bella Hadid to design it, or god knows how much more impractical the inside would have been.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/sep/27/zaha-ha...

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#317

Post by s73ver »

matsemann wrote: post #36

I'd wish they were a bit more futuristic than having 9000 parking spaces. Why not offer buses from where their employees live or other means of transportation? It's easy to say that most people drive, but that's only because everyone always make that the most convenient mode of transportation. With some effort something else could be even more convenient.

Apple already offers busses to their current campus, and I can't imagine those would go away when they move.

Still, not being able to find a parking spot in the morning is going to irritate a lot of people, and tank productivity.

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#318

Post by Markoff »

valuearb wrote: post #265
Markoff wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

increase of 0.5% for one person offices compared to cubicles sound highly unlikely, i don't think you can replace 2*2m cubicle with same size closed office for 0.5% increase in cost

Yea, it was a while ago, but I think we estimated the cost around $500 a year, and our average cost per developer at $100k per year. IIRC we were paying around $20 per square foot, and the office sizes were small, like 8 by 8. So an extra 25 SF cost about $500 per year. You can make an office almost as small as a cubicle, the difference is you need space for a door to swing in, office walls are thicker than cubicle w…

oh, i am all for efficiency and destroying cubicles, but my point was you can't just make walls of cubicle higher, put there door and call it office, office most have normal size, window, i think 3.5x3.5m is the minimum i could call room/office and that's like 3 times bigger than 2x2m cubicle (generous, world not be surprised even by smaller one), which makes it at 215$/m2 per year 1700$ additional cost per worker, not including building cost, but yeah you are right i guess, it's relatively negligible because you were in some extremely cheap place while paying devs quite reasonable salaries, so there is discrepancy

i just checked some prices and even in very cheap European capitals you would be looking into like 120$/m2, in bigger few times more

https://www.statista.com/statistics/431672/commercial-proper...

though after reading this it seem relatively cheap, seem actually cheaper than apartment, i am surprised people don't form together fake company to rent office spaces instead of apartments, they can get better deal with location and price, just kitchen and bathroom won't be so accessible

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#319

Post by s73ver »

Someone1234 wrote: post #107
mxfh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is building 11,000 parking spaces not because it wants to but because Cupertino, the suburban city where the new headquarters is located, demands it. Cupertino has a requirement for every building. http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21720269-dont-let-peo... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14067658

That's a copout. Cupertino demands it because businesses have abused public streets before (e.g. relying on public parking for business purposes); if Apple had gone to Cupertino with an actual plan, they may have allowed fewer spaces, but since Apple didn't and just accepted the requirement it is because Apple has no plans to reduce it.

Because regardless of the reasons why, most of their engineers are going to drive. And not being able to find a parking spot would put many of them in a crappy mood, which would hurt productivity.

Yes, it would be great if people didn't have to drive. But we don't live in that world yet, and it would be foolish and stupid to impose that on your employees.

Re: A Look Inside Apple’s New Campus

#320

Post by jshevek »

valuearb wrote: post #308
jshevek wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Huge productivity benefits" Citation needed.

Peopleware/Mythical Man month. Anyone who has ever done any amount of software development professionally.

Yes, you have no objective evidence that this layout results in improved productivity, yet casually throw that assertion around as if it were fact.
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