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What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

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Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#261
i'm 46 and i began programming when i was 11. Obviously no Google or SO. There were some excellent resources even at that time, but i don't recall having legal access to the internet until i was in university (from eastern europe).

so yes, nearly always learned and traversed bugs in my code the hard way...but i don't recall it being that hard. Mostly it was just awesome.

but here's the thing: then i was coding in BASIC then C from lyceum, university, and the first few years of my professional career and most of the time i was working. While working in C for instance, i recall most of the time i got stuck it was something having to do with memory management--allocating it, reallocating it, recycling it, and re-pointing it. I got stuck, but not in a subject i didn't already know quite well.

today, it's a much different story: i'm at risk of drowning in DSLs (never called that, often "frameworks)--new ones pop up constantly and others disappear.

so when i get stuck today (or for most of the last decade) quite often it's because i need a different kind of assistance--like the kind a noob needs, because quite often i'm starting at some code from a DSL that i don't need to re-factor or debug, but that i need to interact with, and i've never seen this DSL before.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#262
I taught myself to program in Atari Basic on an Atari 800 in 1981. I still remember the book and the way it described a for loop as an Oreo cookie. I remember subscribing to Byte magazine and typing in code snippets. Later had a 1050 disk driver, Gemini 10x printer with the Ape Face interface, and a Mips 300 baud modem. It was a glorious time, the dawn of a new age. I loved it.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your problem with the current state of SO?

It's full of people who can't be bothered to do even the most trivial investigation into their own damn bugs - the same trivial "I didn't configure it lol" and "I have no idea what I'm doing, nor interest in developing one, fix my thing for me plz" bugs that the site already has a dozen answers for. It stays that way because volunteer moderators don't want to wade through sewage all day. So it goes. The topic-specifi…

Fair, but that's the point of upvoting questions, no? As someone who uses SO through google searches 95% of the time, I mostly see high quality discussions.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. As a software person, I'm constantly dismayed by the quality of information in the surface web. Some days it feels like all but the most esoteric search terms yield so much lowest-common-denominator information useful only to the rank beginner. As in any branch of science or engineering, learning to work from primary sources is an absolutely core skill. Resources like StackOverflow are a crutch at best, a…

and half of he time the information you get from StackOverflow (judging by the comments against them) is abstract because it's written by someone who understands what's going on and is being implemented by someone who doesn't. Cut and paste doesn't work when you're trying to take a conceptual piece of code and use it for an actual implementation. You've actually gotta take a minute to understand what it's doing and a…

thats why i always go for the second answer, not the first

no idea why that works, but it usually does

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#266
post #54

it SUCKED. You really had to rtfm (and hope that the fm was good) or depend on google to find the right topic on a given forum (dreamincode, for ex) and hope that that topic didn't devolve into a shouting match over something that had NOTHING to do with your search query. it took much longer to get anything done. Writing code these days is SUPER easy. Write stuff, run or compile it, get an error, search Google for sa…

> Writing code these days is SUPER easy. Write stuff, run or compile it, get an error, search Google for said error, click on SO link, find answer, implement answer, move on with your life. At the same time, language APIs have exploded. In 1998, you could literally memorize all of a language like ColdFusion. External libraries existed, but weren't as depended on like gems or node modules are today. However, I think y…

yeah, i could imagine that there is less "SO software dev" amongst C++ developers than Rails or JS developers that practically live on the web. I haven't done C++ dev in a while, but when I did, the libraries were really well documented. whenever i had an issue with win32 dev, i would usually get referred to msdn instead of SO or cplusplus.net for example

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#267
post #54

it SUCKED. You really had to rtfm (and hope that the fm was good) or depend on google to find the right topic on a given forum (dreamincode, for ex) and hope that that topic didn't devolve into a shouting match over something that had NOTHING to do with your search query. it took much longer to get anything done. Writing code these days is SUPER easy. Write stuff, run or compile it, get an error, search Google for sa…

(Not sure if being sarcastic...) Programming these days is hard, too. The amount of stuff you have to learn seems to continually get bigger and bigger. Like learning to program in pure Java vs. learning Android development. Writing programs in Java feels like programming to me. Writing programs for Android feels like remembering formulas without understanding how they work. And googling for answers often takes you do…

i agree that there are n frameworks coming out every day, but the point I was trying to make was that if you run into an error or even a warning that you don't understand, you can now usually find what you're after on SO or even Github Issues given that enough people have used the product unlike the past where you had to do more of your own digging to troubleshoot issues. so even though the volume of new things is bigger, access to info about those things is significantly bigger too, so it kind of evens itself out

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's full of people who can't be bothered to do even the most trivial investigation into their own damn bugs - the same trivial "I didn't configure it lol" and "I have no idea what I'm doing, nor interest in developing one, fix my thing for me plz" bugs that the site already has a dozen answers for. It stays that way because volunteer moderators don't want to wade through sewage all day. So it goes. The topic-specifi…

Fair, but that's the point of upvoting questions, no? As someone who uses SO through google searches 95% of the time, I mostly see high quality discussions.

The best discussions are usually marked off topic or 'no good fit" or "not of use for future readers"

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#269
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expert Sex Change You may want to edit... Edit: Well; that explains why the service didn't take off

And I may not. That was the constant nickname back in the day, occasioned by the fact that their original domain was "expertsexchange.com". They later moved to one with a hyphen, but by then the damage was done. (Edit to your edit: It did take off! It was the best we had for years. That best was just very, very bad.)

true . Other such nameswere therapistfinder -> The Rapist Finder Whorepresent -> Whore Present

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#270
post #248

I'm self-taught, and now in my 50s. I started programming when I was 10, in 1976. In those earliest days of consumer-class computers, there wasn't really a developed market for practical programming books. However, the manuals that came with software or OSes were quite well-written. There were a few magazines, too, like BYTE and Dr. Dobbs Journal, that published source code -- always the best way to learn! It helped,…

I think they key is your dad being a programmer. My first missed encounter with programming was when I was a teenager in the 90s. I sort of wanted to do more with these machine but wasn't sure where to start. My parents weren't particularly IT savvy (though we had home computers since the Mac SE) and weren't keen for me to do something else than outdoor activities. I still managed to get them to buy me a copy of code…

If I had been dumped in front of a C compiler, I wouldn't have made it anywhere either...

I got into programming in the early 90's by tearing apart the sample HyperCard stacks on our Mac Classic. The UI and the english-like programming language made it super easy for a 8-year-old to learn by copy pasting and re-arranging code. My uncle then noted my interest and gave me a copy of the HyperTalk reference guide which I read cover to cover. The writing in that book was great, the sample code was full of humor that flew way over my head.

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