101–110 of 312 posts
The success stories are Mozilla's Servo, Dropbox's client and back end, and parts of Gnome. That's good. It's interesting that all the success stories involve mixing Rust and C/C++ code. Are there any pure Rust successes yet?
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If your language doesn't have a REPL, your language is less productive. Deal with it. Oh hardly. As someone who's developed software in Perl, Python, C, Java, C#, Haskell, and a few others besides, a REPL is the one thing I use the least . I've honestly never understood the obsession with it. Is a rapid compile-run-debug cycle important? Absolutely. If I want to test something in isolation, being able to rapidly turn…
I tend to agree, but being able to have a REPL at all is a symptom that your language is capable of an extremely fast compile-run-debug cycle. In other words, if you can't implement a REPL, that's the definition of "less productive language." It's not about the REPL itself but the capability of implementing one. Think about it like this: On your list of languages, which of them would you say is most productive? It de…
That definition excludes any bare-metal language, and use cases where you want to take advantage of cheap low-level memory protection features such as No-Execute bits. For me, a more interesting benchmark would be how well Rust fares in implementing the runtime of a higher-level language.
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I tend to agree, but being able to have a REPL at all is a symptom that your language is capable of an extremely fast compile-run-debug cycle. In other words, if you can't implement a REPL, that's the definition of "less productive language." It's not about the REPL itself but the capability of implementing one. Think about it like this: On your list of languages, which of them would you say is most productive? It de…
> Is the Rust community claiming that the entire history of computing has lead up to this point, where Rust exists, and now nobody needs to write anything in not-Rust? Are people 200 years from now going to write Rust and nothing else? Let's be clear - the person who said there'd be no reason to write in anything else is an enthusiastic Rust user, but they don't work on Rust & don't represent "the Rust community." Th…
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It's not user-hostile at all. It is quite simple. I don't want to implement gzip support, and I definitely don't want uncompressed content. You can't demand me to implement what I don't want to implement for my website. You are not my target audience (gzip users, IE users, Safari users). > And it's not just Safari. All sorts of tools that support HTTP don't support Brotli. Case in point, I ran `curl` against your pag…
From your last paragraph I question whether you really understand anything you're being told here. Yes, I said HTTP instead of HTTPS, but that wasn't meant to signify that I was using unsecured HTTP, since HTTPS is supported virtually everywhere and generally understood to be a part of HTTP. More specifically, if I actually try and access http://mmstick.tk , I just get redirected to https://mmstick.tk anyway, without…
Attempting to access the site via HTTP will merely redirect you to the HTTPS service. Nothing is being hosted on the HTTP service. When you reach the HTTPS service, your browser will receive a HSTS header that will cause your web browser to automatically direct to the HTTPS server and not touch HTTP at all for future requests, ever. Nor can your connection be downgraded to HTTP.
> Also, how can HTTPS possibly be a requirement for Brotli? Brotli is a compression format, it doesn't care what the medium of transmission is, and it works just fine over HTTP. It just won't work with your site over HTTP because your site doesn't serve any content over HTTP.
Tell that to Google, Mozilla, and Microsoft. You cannot use Brotli compression over HTTP. Only when you are using the HTTPS protocol can you use Brotli. And in general, if you support HTTPS and are using an update browser, you more than likely already have support for Brotli today.
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Yup, that's fair. BTW, I actually stand by your interpretation. I challenge anyone to demonstrate significant productivity gains (as measured by number of lines of tested, production code written) that can be attributed to the availability of a REPL (which was the claim of the poster I was replying to). I honestly don't buy it. I believe it's a very nice tool for learning a new language, and maybe for exploring an ex…
Try Clojure.
That's not even the beginnings of a useful reply. :)
Give me a highlight of your normal day-to-day with the language. What, exactly, does the REPL offer you that provides significant productivity gains that can't be had any other way?
Because clearly I've missed it.
And it should be pretty easy for you to describe if it's that common and/or obvious.
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Yeah, I certainly understand various language trade-offs, but in my experience any of these early wins of interpreted languages come back to haunt you at significant cost. If you understood the wins of untyped languages, you'd be aware that this is often the most optimal path for a startup to take. Get features done now + fix them later is, in hundreds of cases, the way that startups win. It's also a win for people w…
> It's beginning to get tiresome to continually hear the Rust community go on and on about how amazing Rust is and say, with a straight face, that eventually there will be no reason to write anything in not-Rust. Are you serious? The hubris is off the charts. So a few considerations here: (1) I really have no connection with the Rust community aside from curiosity, so it's quite dishonest to project my opinion onto a…
Citation needed. Just because static typing is has been more fashionable for the past 10 years, doesn't mean it's a closed case. Before that people were extolling the virtues of dynamic languages.
Some people deciding they prefer static typing doesn't constitute some kind of consensus or fact.
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I don't use Apple products, nor am I user of Safari. It's not in my interest to request for Brotli support in products that I do not use. > I think it's safe to say the overwhelming majority of software that issues HTTP requests does not support Brotli. And you're also not following the HTTP spec. Again, I do not support HTTP! The website is HTTPS-exclusive. HTTP is basically a legacy protocol at this point. Every we…
> It's not in my interest to request for Brotli support in products that I do not use. You've already positioned yourself as trying to take a principled stand against software that doesn't support Brotli in the hopes of convincing the software authors to add support for Brotli. Now you're saying you don't care whether software you don't use supports Brotli. These two positions contradict each other, and if you really…
I'm not sure where you think the contradiction is. That I do not support web browsers that don't support Brotli should already tell you that I don't care if they support Brotli or not! If there is no support, there is no support! Doesn't effect me.
> You completely missed the point. I know your site doesn't support HTTP. But HTTPS is generally understood to be part of the umbrella of "HTTP". It is in fact literally the same protocol (well, for HTTP/1.1; HTTP/2 is a brand new protocol and irrelevant for this discussion), just wrapped in SSL.
Basically completely irrelevant to what's being discussed here. I do not support non-SSL HTTP connections. That is all!
> Just so we're clear, your site currently does not work, and will continue to not work, with tools like `curl` or `wget`, or nearly all other non-browser tools people have written.
Naturally. I would prefer to not have anyone using these tools on my server.
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The Modula-3 Evangelism Strike Force! We meet again! :)
Oh yeah, I forgot to ask "Have you or the others considered rewriting your compiler in Modula-3? I hear you get safety, acceptable speed, and 5x iteration speed of Rust."
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If your language doesn't have a REPL, your language is less productive. Deal with it. Oh hardly. As someone who's developed software in Perl, Python, C, Java, C#, Haskell, and a few others besides, a REPL is the one thing I use the least . I've honestly never understood the obsession with it. Is a rapid compile-run-debug cycle important? Absolutely. If I want to test something in isolation, being able to rapidly turn…
> I've honestly never understood the obsession with it. The true key to understanding REPLs is their role in consuming third-party libraries. While languages both with and without REPLs will have well-used packages in their package ecosystems that are well-documented ; languages with REPLs will also manage to have well-used, poorly-documented packages: packages whose "documentation" consists only of the de-facto abil…
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Rust's compiler is not fast. At best it can beat C++ compilers - C++ being a language whose build times people love to bemoan - but usually it does far worse. This might change once rustc eventually gets proper incremental compilation (not the codegen-only thing that's currently in beta). Hopefully. Rust doesn't use header files, so in theory it should be possible to leapfrog C++ (at least until C++ gets modules stan…
Oh please, it's plenty fast, at least on par with javac. There's also 'cargo check' which is blazing fast. If you're seeing very large compile time then it's a good sign that you probably want to break things into smaller crates anyway. I've been working on some pretty large stuff and compile speeds haven't been an issue(aside from the Emscripten linker, but that's not Rust's fault).
I wouldn't expect Rust would ever be as fast to compile, even if it weren't a younger language, because Rust is doing compile time optimization that Java defers until runtime. And that's ok: there may be times what Java does is better, but there are also times it's worse.