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What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

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Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#141
Barnes & Noble. That was the go to resource for programming books.

I remember back in 2001 I'd been self-taught PHP for about 3 years and was able to be productive, build some stuff that I needed built and was generally comfortable with how things worked. As far as I was concerned I "knew PHP". One day I was stuck on a problem so I actually went to B&N and bought a big PHP book because it looked like it had what I needed in it.

Sat down, found that answer and noticed something else that I didn't know. Was shocked that I'd been programming so long without knowing that thing. Ended up binge reading the entire 600 page book over the course of a week and became a better programmer for it.

Ever since, I force myself to read a book on any language I plan to actually do more than tinker with because that comprehensive information is so much more valuable.

So yea...Barnes and Noble.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#142
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be mixing up the years but in '98 I think a 333Mhz Celeron wasn't necessarily cheap. Not top of the line for sure, but also not your average dumpster find.

I remember the CPU itself was like $35 USD and could easily overclock to 415MHz. It and the Celeron 300a were some of the best bargains ever in computing due to a binning oddity on Intel's part. But he's probably talking about the cheap eMachines that were sold with rebates along with dial up. They went for something like $300 iirc. I had a nearly identical experience to the grandparent post, except I would build/upg…

Yes, it was an eMachines. I think the promo we were on was for Prodigy dialup and was like $29.99/month for 3 years. If you agreed to that, you could get a $400? instant rebate at Best Buy/Circuit City/etc on any random PC. The base model eMachines were conveniently priced exactly the same as the rebate.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#143

I'm self-taught, and now in my 50s. I started programming when I was 10, in 1976. In those earliest days of consumer-class computers, there wasn't really a developed market for practical programming books. However, the manuals that came with software or OSes were quite well-written. There were a few magazines, too, like BYTE and Dr. Dobbs Journal, that published source code -- always the best way to learn! It helped,…

I loved Dr. Dobb's Journal too, and I also really looked forward to each delicious issue of Creative Computing as a kid! Like so many others, I read the Adventure source code and typed in the Star Trek source code. I also loved all the Beagle Bros software and programming tools, and especially their catalogs and ads. (And NO, they were definitely NOT "Brogrammers", they were freaks!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bea…

+1 Creative Computing

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#144
The QBASIC help "file" was really good for its time. That's basically how I learned. That plus a collection of QBASIC programs the nerds at my school passed around and would occasionally add to. Basically, I would open one of those programs up, run it in QBASIC, and if it is awesome, I would try to figure out how it worked. If I came across something I didn't understand, I would pull up the help from QBASIC.

My childhood self-learning experience is a good example of the importance of: 1. "open source" 2. a fast code-run cycle

QBASIC, being an interpreted, pretty much guaranteed these two conditions inadvertently.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#145

Manuals. Compilers came with comprehensive manuals. When you paid for things like Turbo C++ or Paradox or MS Cobol you got a well edited, indexed and quality printed book that covered the entire language and tools comprehensively. From there you wade into existing code bases, learn by maintaining the work of others, and eventually you originate new work. Along the way you dog-eared the manuals. The Internet has obvia…

I still have my Turbo C++ 3.1 books. Oh the memories! I Ki of miss the visual style of that RAD GUI prototyper they had.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#146
Sure, there was no SO/Google, and you had to rely on manuals and books. But the signal-to-noise was much lower. If you found a solution to a problem, it was nearly always The Right Solution. Today you look for something and you find 10 solutions, of which 9 are complete shit.

This is more of a factor of how tech moves fast today, but still. It wasn't impossible to write programs.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#147
I started coding at the age of 10 in the early 80's, using a Timex 2068.

My first source of information were the computer provided manuals, with them I got to learn Basic and overall computer architecture.

Then back on those days there were lots of books targeted to get kids to learn programming. With them I got to improve my Basic skills, learn Z80 Assembly and enjoy typing Assembly via hexdumps.

Later I started reading the Input magazine, which had code to type for all major 8 bit platforms.

At the same time I was getting MicroHobby, MicroMania and the newspaper A Capital with its computer section on Friday's.

Then when my English skills improved, Crash and Your Sinclair became part of my magazine collection.

Later I got into the PC and Amiga worlds, then I was reading Spooler, Amiga Format, PC Techniques, Dr. Dobb's Journal, The C User's Journal which became The C/C++ User's Journal, C++ Report, Microsoft Systems Journal, Game Developers Magazine. After having devoured all the programming manuals that came with all Borland products I was using.

During my GNU/Linux FOSS zealot phase I was also a regular buyer of Linux Journal and Linux Format.

Parallel to all those magazines, regular trips to the local library, getting some books when travelling to Lisbon or Porto.

Access to BBS were out of my budget back then, so I only got to access them when I got into the university.

So I started to access BBS, shortly followed by Gopher sites and USENET, before the Web got any meaningful meaning.

Also given that the university had a huge collection of CS books and research papers, all the way back to the foundations of computer science, I also got to visit it regularly.

Other than that there were the computer clubs and demoscene meetings to get to exchange knowledge between persons that shared the same interests about programming.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#148

Manuals. Compilers came with comprehensive manuals. When you paid for things like Turbo C++ or Paradox or MS Cobol you got a well edited, indexed and quality printed book that covered the entire language and tools comprehensively. From there you wade into existing code bases, learn by maintaining the work of others, and eventually you originate new work. Along the way you dog-eared the manuals. The Internet has obvia…

> Compilers came with comprehensive manuals. When you paid for things like Turbo C++ or Paradox or MS Cobol you got a well edited, indexed and quality printed book that covered the entire language and tools comprehensively.

Often, three or more books: commonly a library reference (which was just what it says, but with a lot more detail than many packages today have with their low-effort, auto-generated API docs), a programmer's guide​ (a comprehensive guide to the language supported), and a user's guide (a guide to the tooling provided.)

The web has made finding answers to hard questions quite a bit easier, but it's also made the basics quite a bit harder. Current (to the software version you are using), correct, and clear information covering the majority of things most people would use was a lot easier to find when getting a compiler meant getting books with exactly that information.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#149
My father bought us a TI-99/4A in 1981. The manual was quite good, and was essentially a tutorial for BASIC programming since BASIC was the OS. I got through that quickly and then just started trying stuff on my own, more and more complex.

A lot of things were simpler since there were no external libraries, no network updates, even no real choice of language. You just keep reading and experimenting and building your skills. I kept a 3-ring binder of notes, things I'd written down or photocopied from books.

My next computer was a Commodore 128. This had a better version of BASIC, more memory, and a CP/M option. You could also program directly in assembly or compile down to it, so I learned to read and write 8-bit assembly too. People are still learning new tricks with the old Commodore computers but by and large, you could still learn this machine inside-out in a way that's really impossible with today's more complicated, constantly updated systems.

After that I went to university and had both teachers and internet access, and programming has never been the same since...

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#150

Systems were designed better and documented better back then, and changed less frequently. They had to be, because Stack Overflow didn't exist to make up for language/compiler/runtime developer shortcomings.

also, to a much larger degree than today you could do your job with K&R (or the equivalent for one of the other 3 environments you might use) and man pages. by spending (wasting) a lot of time you eventually figured out the nuances of the systems you were using and that was it.

this model of gluing together several large undocumented packages just wouldn't work - because you couldn't debug by just typing error messages and pathologies into google

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