Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 383 posts

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#341

Post by sqeaky »

solipsism wrote: post #290
erikpukinskis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't need to upload the entire 1gb. The central AI can query the cars to get just the bits it has questions about. Part of the AI's job is learning which data to care about and which data to ignore. The fact that the trees got new leaves again this year and it's dark at 2am and the sign at the Chinese Restaurant is still red don't to be relayed. More data isn't automatically better. The hard part isn't getti…

This is naive. You don't know what data you will care about in a year. The ability to have and keep all the data is incredibly valuable.

Why do so many on HN feel the need to structure their responses like this:

> Something Rude. Real argument, which is stronger with first sentence removed.

You may be right (or wrong, I don't know) but opening with rudeness or insults makes it more difficult to have meaningful conversations.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#342

Post by icehawk219 »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #80

Here's the thing. The end game is that Uber, Lyft and taxi drivers are out of a job as chauffeur. However, the self-driving cars remain a capital expense that someone has to finance. I couldn't Google up numbers easily, but it looks like the number of ride-hailed vehicles is in the multiple millions in the US. 1,000,000 autonomous cars at $50,000 each is a $50 Billion-per-million capital expense. I'd guess that the c…

The spend/build-out is even bigger than that because if these cars have no driver how to they refuel? Unless they've got a robot arm capable of doing that themselves they still need a human involved. As well as somewhere to do repairs and maintenance on the cars. Right now Lyft and Uber effectively out-source that to the owner of the vehicle. So whoever is doing this roll out doesn't just need the vehicles they also need the facilities to house, maintain, and fuel them. That infrastructure is, arguably, even bigger and more complicated than buying up the cars.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#343

Post by CydeWeys »

JCharante wrote: post #237
CydeWeys wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would require a legislative solution to end tipping. Until that happens, most restaurants pay their servers $2.13 an hour, with the rest of their pay coming from tips. If you don't tip at a restaurant that does make you a jerk. I don't like tipping culture either, but as long as you live in one, you've just gotta play along with it. Think of tips as an added tax on the price, and go out less if necessary to keep y…

Isn't it $2.13 + tips if $2.13 + tips >= min. wage else min. wage ?

As scarmig says, it's hard to enforce, but even if it is correctly enforced, it's on a per-paycheck basis, not on a strict hourly basis. So imagine a server who makes an average of $20/hour with tips (which seems reasonable) -- if suddenly two-thirds of customers become tip abstainers then the server's pay will drop down to right around the normal minimum hourly wage. The top off only gets you up to poverty wages (keep in mind many server jobs are part-time); any lack of tipping above that point is pure loss for the server.

Also, I happen to be in Madrid right now, which doesn't have a tipping culture, and let me tell you that I've had some pretty bad service here. Way worse, on average, than in the United States.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#344

Post by ehsankia »

tehlike wrote: post #130
taneq wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may not be sending data back home via the mobile network, but you can bet your boots they make exhaustive logs of Autopilot disengagements and store them locally to be siphoned off at the next service. I wonder if they have WiFi base stations collecting data at Supercharger points? That's what I'd do.

Why not use owner's home network?

I definitely wouldn't be happy about Tesla uploading gigabytes of data on my metered connection. Even if it was unmetered, most people don't have very fast up-speeds and that could take days to upload and heavily impact their speeds. Absolutely unacceptable.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#345

Post by ehsankia »

zardo wrote: post #268
ehsankia wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, do they/you have any concrete numbers to back this up? For example, Uber has a disengagement rate of once per 0.9 mile, whereas Waymo shows numbers higher up at 5000+ miles. The California DMV report [0] has numbers for a couple other companies that tested in California. The other runners ups are Nissan and BMW with 247 and 638 miles respectively. Still an order of magnitude behind. But Volvo isn't there, and I'…

It's hard to say how comparable those numbers really are. One manufacturer could be only driving routes that they know are the most challenging for their system, and another could be running laps on the freeway.

That's a good point, though it's still the closest to a quantitative number we have. I would love if the government actually forced some more rigorous quantitative testing on these cars, some way we can compare apples to apples. A lot of companies are making all sorts of crazy bold claims but I'd like more concrete evidence before I put my life in their hands.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#346

Post by ehsankia »

komali2 wrote: post #303
amyjess wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that Google gathers so much data from human drivers using Google Maps and Waze that they can build a decent model.

Why do you think Google maps data would be as useful as the camera and steering input data Tesla can collect?

Why do you think Tesla is able to collect all or any of the camera and steering input data? And what proof do you have that the little they are able to get off is actually at all valuable.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#347

Post by ehsankia »

fleetingmoments wrote: post #240
tribby wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

teslas don't have lidar, so it's hard to say how useful their data will be in the long term

True, but if it turns out LIDAR is overkill and that self-driving can be done with only cheaper sensors (cameras), Waymo might be behind the curve on the use-case that the market will opt for.

When it comes to your safety, would you rather overkill or underkill? Especially when it comes to something as important as self-driving, I think it's absolutely reckless to try to "maximize profit" and "get it out there ASAP".

It would be an absolutely disaster if the technology as a whole gets a horrible reputation, or even worse, banned in places, just because some company skipped some steps and wanted to be the first or cheapest to the market.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#348

Post by komali2 »

ehsankia wrote: post #346
komali2 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Google maps data would be as useful as the camera and steering input data Tesla can collect?

Why do you think Tesla is able to collect all or any of the camera and steering input data? And what proof do you have that the little they are able to get off is actually at all valuable.

Ok, fine, we don't know what either company is collecting, but google maps can ONLY collect GPS and speed data, whereas Tesla has the POTENTIAL to collect gps, speed, camera, steering input, braking input, and acceleration input.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#349

Post by ehsankia »

Eridrus wrote: post #326
keeptrying wrote: post #77

Waymo will have the first self driving cars on the road. They are so ahead of everyone. I think everyone including regular car companies buy the tech from Waymo in the short term.

I believe that Waymo are killing it, but... their desire to not be a car company and just write the software makes me wonder what their plan is to become a serious driver of Alphabet profit. Unless they have made some real breakthroughs and are managing to somehow keep them under wraps (seems unlikely), optimistically they have a 5 year lead on their competitors. 5 years is a good amount of time to be the only people…

They seem to have gotten a lot more serious since forming Waymo. In just a few months, they started the actual public trial in Phoenix as well as make this deal with Lyft. Seems like they've finally understood the urgency and have stepped on the pedal.

I don't understand your claim that they have to be a car company though. With this deal, it seems like they are (at least for now) targeting ride sharing, and arguably that's a much better use of the technology for many reasons.

For example, you don't have to worry about parking, you can put limits on where the car drives, you own the cars so you can track them, collect data and transfer it as you wish.

Also, wasn't Uber valued higher than Tesla, at least a few months back? So arguably as a business, it's as good if not better than being a car company, at least for now until the tech gets even better.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#350

Post by themoonbus »

aedron wrote: post #162
keeptrying wrote: post #77

Waymo will have the first self driving cars on the road. They are so ahead of everyone. I think everyone including regular car companies buy the tech from Waymo in the short term.

> Waymo will have the first self driving cars on the road Which are still way, way off in the future (if ever). I propose 'self-driving cars' are the 'flying cars' of our generation: Something that seems inevitable and just around the corner, yet here we are.

Except flying cars would require an entirely new transportation infrastructure. Self-driving cars adapt to what's already in place.
Post reply on HN