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What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

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Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#111

Post by kitsunesoba »

suls wrote: post #91

Do people really learn _only_ from SO? I mean sure, it can solve problem at hand but learning a new language or technology? I don't see how it could compete with books in any way

I think what makes SO more appealing than books to many is that SO questions are usually micro-focused on very specific tasks, and are often asked from an end-goal standpoint rather than a mechanical one. Where traditional reference has a prerequisite of a certain level of knowledge to utilize (mostly the capability to break down problems and know where those lines lay), SO users can simply ask how to accomplish their overarching goal and someone more knowledgeable can supply an answer detailing what the poster actually wants to do, with all the substeps laid out.

Personally, I have a hard time retaining technical book content unless I'm immediately utilizing what I've read, which is mighty inconvenient. If I stop writing code for the time it takes to flip through a book and find the relevant bits, I've lost my flow. It's much faster to google and flip through blog posts and SO questions.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#112

Post by icedchai »

I started in the 80's. when I was in elementary school. I taught myself BASIC by typing in programs from books (TI/99 and Apple II).

Later (mid-teens), I taught myself C doing the same thing (on an Amiga.)

I also downloaded sample code from BBSes and the early Internet (pre-WWW.)

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#113

Post by kabdib »

Books, and subscriptions to things like the ACM (for papers to read). Before the internet I'd go to the corporate library (at Apple) and photocopy a few dozen papers to read every month. In my office I had a couple large bookcases with a few hundred textbooks. Read manuals from various manufacturers (e.g., processor references, chip docs).

(I've still got most of those books, and the papers are largely in boxes, and while many of them are kind of quaint, like the early Unix, Mac and Windows manuals, much of the material is still relevant and worth re-reading).

For learning programming: Read textbooks (e.g., K&R) and do the example exercises. Read kernel, compiler and editor source code for good examples. Find a mentor, ideally a hardass who won't let you get away with even tiny mistakes.

I was thinking earlier today that a lot of the reason why systems are so complicated these days is that we can get away with it because of resources like SO and Google, and in a sense we're creating "complexity we can't lift", but on a global scale now, and at some point this approach won't scale. You need to pretty good at searching for issues and triaging bad advice, and this is only going to get worse.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#115

Post by jamesrcole »

smhenderson wrote: post #105

Books. Lots and lots of books. And computer shows where you could pick up boxed software (OS, compilers, etc.) for anywhere from 50 - 90% off. Wasn't until 1995 that I discovered gcc which led to my discovery of GNU/Linux shortly after. Before that I scrimped and saved and waited for trade shows to pick up new books and versions of MS programming tools for DOS, Win 3.1 and then Windows 95. After that I ran a duel boo…

> And computer shows...

It's worth pointing out that, for a lot of places in the world, there weren't such things. There certainly weren't where I'm from in Australia

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#117

Post by pjc50 »

suls wrote: post #91

Do people really learn _only_ from SO? I mean sure, it can solve problem at hand but learning a new language or technology? I don't see how it could compete with books in any way

Programming language books are and were often very bad. There was a huge industry in giving very detailed step-by-step guides that didn't help the reader to think and had very low information density.

Some books were useful to me, but they were "diamonds in the rough". Searchable documentation and result-focused tutorials available these days are usually much better. Although I can't understand the people who want to learn from videos.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#118

Post by jamesrcole »

jbb67 wrote: post #97

It was a lot easier in many ways. You bought books or got training, most of which was accurate and good. Now you read random opinions and have little idea how good the advice you find is.

Its not like everyone could afford books or training (or even had access to them).

IMO in pre-web days it was a far more tedious and frustrating experience.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#119

Post by smhenderson »

jamesrcole wrote: post #115
smhenderson wrote: post #105

Books. Lots and lots of books. And computer shows where you could pick up boxed software (OS, compilers, etc.) for anywhere from 50 - 90% off. Wasn't until 1995 that I discovered gcc which led to my discovery of GNU/Linux shortly after. Before that I scrimped and saved and waited for trade shows to pick up new books and versions of MS programming tools for DOS, Win 3.1 and then Windows 95. After that I ran a duel boo…

> And computer shows... It's worth pointing out that, for a lot of places in the world, there weren't such things. There certainly weren't where I'm from in Australia

Yeah, I guess I should have stated that my experience was in the US. And I grew up in a large city as well so I can imagine the experience for someone living in a rural part of the US was more like yours than mine.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#120

Post by eli »

Usenet and Listservs served similar purposes. They just weren't as easy to search or as prolific. I remember spending more time posting posting questions and waiting for replies compared to now where I almost never post something new to Stack Overflow.
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