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Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

nytimes.com

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Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#51

Post by ridgeguy »

sikosmurf wrote: post #35
gremlinsinc wrote: post #8

I feel like Lyft is the underdog coming back to strike the killer blow to Uber... The year Uber has had I wouldn't be surprised to see them disappear altogether by 2018/2019. Lyft seems to be doing things a lot better, but helps that their CEO isn't out starting fires instead of putting them out.

Interesting. I feel like there is no way Uber would be on the brink of bankruptcy and not be able to fundamentally change the problems that have persisted so far. I guess what I'm getting at is that a company valued at 69 billion dollars going out of business in less than 2 years should be a surprise to everyone .

Valuation differs from cash in the bank.

Uber could be valued at a gazillion $, but if it can't make payroll in 90 days, it's got a problem that would be tough to fix, given the apparent lack of a profitable business model.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#52

Post by BinaryIdiot »

goobynight wrote: post #46
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Ultimately no one is going to be able to produce and maintain a car cheaper than a car manufacturing company so I feel like the eventual "winner" is going to be someone either partnered with, or is, a car manufacturer. Tesla is positioning itself super well for this. GM seems to be on its way as well especially with their past interest in Lyft?

How has Tesla positioned itself super well. Didn't they...just recently figure out that factories are more difficult than cars? Or will they be a partner? Please clarify.

Tesla has working, autonomous software running on vehicles in the real world gathering real data that can be used to improve. They're also a car manufacturer.

They didn't "just recently figure out factories are more difficult than cars" but even if they did the market is so immature for self driving that they would have several years to build up manufacturing capabilities. It wouldn't matter.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#53

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #36
gremlinsinc wrote: post #8

I feel like Lyft is the underdog coming back to strike the killer blow to Uber... The year Uber has had I wouldn't be surprised to see them disappear altogether by 2018/2019. Lyft seems to be doing things a lot better, but helps that their CEO isn't out starting fires instead of putting them out.

Lyft - Uber might be a Facebook - MySpace story.

Actually, it's on a smaller scale but I was thinking a "Digg - Reddit" analogy was more appropriate.

Reddit was much smaller than Digg for years: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2005-06-01%202... . Reddit was definitely "the little engine that could" for about 6 years, but it was really in 2010 when Digg imploded with the self-inflicted wounds of Digg v4 when Reddit really took off.

In other words, MySpace losing to Facebook seemed largely because Facebook just had a better product (cleaner, focused on real identities), while Digg, like Uber, largely was the victim of self-inflicted wounds.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#54

Post by danso »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #36
gremlinsinc wrote: post #8

I feel like Lyft is the underdog coming back to strike the killer blow to Uber... The year Uber has had I wouldn't be surprised to see them disappear altogether by 2018/2019. Lyft seems to be doing things a lot better, but helps that their CEO isn't out starting fires instead of putting them out.

Lyft - Uber might be a Facebook - MySpace story.

That's an interesting way to put it. Facebook seemed destined to overtake MySpace as it provided useful data connections (college courses/networks) and a uniform design that MySpace did not have. Lyft has pretty much been trying to be a drop-in replacement for Uber (to be fair, Uber nicked a few ideas from Lyft), with no projects like automation or even Uber's attempts at being a delivery service. If Lyft ends up winning, it's going to be a much more unexpected win than Facebook over MySpace.

Edit: the innovation of the News Feed can't be overstated. IIRC, MySpace had nothing like it and it's hard to remember Facebook before it.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#55

Post by zitterbewegung »

I guessed this would happen in a previous comment. Lyft being second fiddle in the ride sharing business has allowed them to take advantage of all of Uber's accumulating missteps. Partnering with GM and now Google it seems that this will be like android. Waymo provides self driving car software . Lyft is like a cell phone carrier providing logistics and the network, and GM provides cars (hardware) which would be like Samsung.

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14321265

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#56

Post by neon_electro »

spike021 wrote: post #37
alistproducer2 wrote: post #14

When I use lyft now, I'm coming across drivers that only drive for lyft. The tide has definitely shifted against Uber. I'm not really sure there's a way back at this point. The one advantage Uber had was network effect, but in my experience that has diminished. Lyfts come just as fast as Ubers now because they have enough drivers on the road to support the response time. I'll never go back to Uber.

Odd. I'm in the Bay Area and have taken many Lyft's lately both in the south bay and also the peninsula. Usually the drivers I get drive for both even up to this point. Could just be regional, not really sure? I feel like even with Uber's issues many drivers who do ride-sharing as a "job" won't want to just drop Uber as it may mean losing out on income (not sure if they can make up the loss with driving more for Lyft…

I'm in Philadelphia and for a few months drove ~2,000 business miles for Lyft only, 0 for Uber. Not sure how much that's worth. I considered driving for Uber as well, but only if I planned to drive tens of thousands of business miles, which I decided not to do at all (got a job).

As a passenger, I exclusively use Lyft.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#57

Post by mattnewton »

pgodzin wrote: post #20

With how much Google had previously invested in Uber, without the Waymo lawsuit it's safe to say this deal would have been struck with Uber instead. Has nottt been a good few months for Uber, and Lyft has really taken advantage.

Maybe it would have, since Uber was exploring their own program and would love to own the whole stack. I see the Uber investment as a hedge, where Alphabet can afford significant stakes in all the horses in the race.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#58

Post by speedplane »

maxerickson wrote: post #16
saulrh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car costs $30k-$60k lifetime (repairs and such). Not many taxi services run luxury vehicles. Paying a single person full-time probably runs $30k-$40k/year, and you're probably running two to keep the duty cycle up. Gas is probably another $10k/year. Car lasts, what, five or ten years? Fifteen if you're careful and buy for reliability? Yes, people and fuel are the most expensive components.

New York City cabs seem to stay in service about 6 years, with 400,000+ miles on them at that point.

Based on the NYC taxis I see roaming the streets, I'd guess that they last longer than six years. Plenty of cars look 10+ years or older. I'd guess that that the average age of a NYC taxi is around six years.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#59

Post by mattnewton »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #26

Uber and Lyft are pretty much the exact same thing in markets where both are available. hell, they even have the same set of drivers as many drivers sign on to both. I think time will prove that Lyft was quite undervalued compared to Uber, especially as autonomous vehicles hit the market.

Personally, there are nicer touches in the Lyft app- the colored signs, color-accurate picture of the make and model of the car, and generally friendlier driver instructions make getting into the car and riding more pleasant for me.

Re: Lyft and Waymo Reach Deal to Collaborate on Self-Driving Cars

#60

Post by speedplane »

MaxLeiter wrote: post #10
beatpanda wrote: post #6

Didn't Lyft also do basically the same thing in China? I feel like Lyft is a living testament to collaboration being a better business strategy than domination

I think the outcome of this Uber vs Lyft battle in a few years will be a better testament - who knows, maybe Lyft will fall and Uber will stay at the top.

They are both losing money at such a tremendous rate, it's hard to tell how far Uber is ahead of the competition. wWe'll only know once the VC and PE money starts to dry up, and they'll be forced to go public and release much more information. Then investors will start demanding at least a path towards profitability.
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