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Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

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Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#21
post #5

Great writeup on the under-belly of publishing! The first 11 books I wrote were published by mainstream publishers (McGraw-Hill, J. Riley, Springer-Verlag, Morgan Kaufman). While I am grateful for the advance monies paid and great support in writing, I eventually decided that I wanted the freedom to write on whatever topics I wanted and all my new stuff is self published, first through lulu.com and now through leanpu…

leanpub is a cheap markdown printing. you don't get even bibliographic helpers. let alone full color bled pages. always saw it as printed github wiki pages (which seems to also describe most of their content) ...or am I wrong?

[Leanpub co-founder here.]

We use Markdown for authoring (one of two dialects: either Leanpub Flavoured Markdown or Markua).

We automatically produce PDF, EPUB, MOBI (what you were saying, essentially), but we also produce InDesign export. If you have a designer, give him/her the InDesign files. You can then produce exactly what you want as a finished product for print, with as much design as you want. But while the book is in-progress, nothing beats being able to click a button to publish.

...and if you don't want to do the InDesign work, you can just click a button and get a print-ready PDF file automatically produced by Leanpub.

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#22
post #4

The heart of this piece is the author's realization that (relative to their cover price) glossy, expensive cookbooks don't actually cost that much to print: "Until one-day I got lucky. Just by chance I spoke to the print broker who actually worked on the exact bid for that famous book. And he told me precisely: that super amazing cookbook that I truly loved, which at the time retailed for $50 and had won every award…

But that's the cost of just getting the books to your warehouse. There's the additional labor cost of unpacking them and individually shipping them, which is probably more than $3.83/book.

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#23

Always exciting to get something up on the hacker news board... weekly reader here for a long time. Happy to answer any questions you may have. -- Nick

Great to see you here. I do have a few questions:

Baseline: that super amazing cookbook that I truly loved, which at the time retailed for $50 and had won every award imaginable, cost $3.83 per book to print, shrink wrap, and ship to the US.

First book: All told, the cost per unit was around $10.80 laden for the first edition run of 30,000 books.

Second book: Initial estimates for a print run of 15,000 and 30,000 are about $13.80 to $15.20 per unit for the basic book without any ‘extras’.

What were the factors that increased the printing costs between these books? Was it mostly photos vs text, or was something else the main driver? And at the volumes you sold, how does this difference end up comparing to the total cost of producing the book?

And I’d be happy to work under those terms again. But then 10 Speed Press, a great independent publisher that could adroitly make an unusual deal for a cool book, got sold to Crown Publishing in 2009. ... I really doubt any publisher will make a deal like that again anytime soon.

Why do you think this is? Presumably, the deal worked out well enough economically for 10 Speed. While the current incumbent publishers are based on a low-risk high-volume corner-cutting model, might there be room for an upstart to take 10 Speed's place? Or room for a publisher who cares about books as art?

If you haven't seen it, the documentary "How to Make a Book with Steidl" is a nice look at a German publisher who appears to stay in business creating books with high attention to detail: http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/steidl_documentary_imprint. And at the extreme high end, the Spanish publisher Siloé has a facsimile of the Voynich manuscript coming out that attracted a lot of attention and preorders: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/23/491033798/....

The end results proved that customers could tell the difference. Alinea is in it’s 6th printing edition with over 100,000 copies sold. It won a James Beard Award for Best Cookbook from a Professional Point of View.

How does the "super amazing cookbook" that "won every award imaginable" fit into the theory that the attention to detail made a difference? Do you think it would have done even better on the market if they had used the more expensive printing processes you did? Or would it likely have done just about the same, but produced a few hundred thousand dollars less profit for the publisher?

I'm worried that the correct conclusion is not that the publishers are missing out, but that maximum profit occurs at relatively low level of quality, such that anyone trying to create a worthy work-of-art in this space is by definition economically irrational. Not that this is a bad thing --- instead, what is the force behind this irrationality, and how can we ensure that it doesn't get drowned out further?

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#24

I'm in the process of writing a book about FinTech industry holistically and I'm interested to know if someone has any tip of publishing business-technology book. My target readers are students, professionals either in tech or finance, entrepreneurs and investors. If anyone could share a bit more about the cost of self publishing would be great. For some reason, I'm more worried about the copy editing at this point t…

You can easily hire a professional copy-editor. In fact, in many instances publishers hire outside third-party experts depending on the subject of the book.

Publishing a text-only book with no or minimal pictures is shocking inexpensive.

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#25
post #23

Always exciting to get something up on the hacker news board... weekly reader here for a long time. Happy to answer any questions you may have. -- Nick

Great to see you here. I do have a few questions: Baseline: that super amazing cookbook that I truly loved, which at the time retailed for $50 and had won every award imaginable, cost $3.83 per book to print, shrink wrap, and ship to the US. First book: All told, the cost per unit was around $10.80 laden for the first edition run of 30,000 books. Second book: Initial estimates for a print run of 15,000 and 30,000 are…

In order:

1) the different factors are: number of photos, quality of paper, quality of inks used (bigger difference than you'd imagine), 6 color offset printing, full bleed on every page, veneer on every photo, quality of binding. If you look at most cookbooks there is a LOT of writing and pages that contain no images. That's intentional.

2) I think 10 Speed did OK on our book since we sold so many. If you do the math from the numbers I gave you can see that they likely made something on the order of $390,000 on our book (this is a very rough estimate). And they took virtually no risk, beyond their time. That said, they did this as a vanity project in order to attract other authors to the imprint -- that was stated from the beginning.

3) Whether there is room for someone else to create an imprint to do this -- I'm not really sure. It's very different to do it as an individual than it is to take on a lot of overhead and put out dozens of titles per year. The point is that the winners pay for the losers... but as an individual you don't have to worry about that.

4) Thanks for the links! I'm going to order that Voynich now -- oh wait, no I'm not... it's $8,000! There are a few publishers that do amazing art quality books and do them very well. But typically they are priced much higher than mass market books, even high end ones at $50 or $60.

5) The 'super amazing' cookbook fits in because it proved to me that the margins were way better than I ever imagined. And frankly, after speaking with the editor that ran that imprint I really felt like she knew I would figure that out and did everything to try to convince me I was going to fail. At this point that book has sold something north of 500,000 copies and the restaurant / chef has IMO received a fraction of what they should have. You're looking at something like $12,500,000 of wholesale revenue from one book alone, maybe more, and the royalties were likely paid at 12% to 15% of cover price after recoup of advance. That's $6.50 per copy. Rough estimate: $3M to the writer. $8M to the publisher, lifetime.

I agree with your conclusion that max. profit occurs with a relatively low quality level... (Hollywood Sequels anyone?)... but that for an individual author it's easier than ever to spurn the system especially if you already have a following through your main profession.

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#26
post #4

The heart of this piece is the author's realization that (relative to their cover price) glossy, expensive cookbooks don't actually cost that much to print: "Until one-day I got lucky. Just by chance I spoke to the print broker who actually worked on the exact bid for that famous book. And he told me precisely: that super amazing cookbook that I truly loved, which at the time retailed for $50 and had won every award…

Are most books ever bought? I would assume that most books remain in inventory. Sitting on shelves forever.

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#27
post #22
post #4

The heart of this piece is the author's realization that (relative to their cover price) glossy, expensive cookbooks don't actually cost that much to print: "Until one-day I got lucky. Just by chance I spoke to the print broker who actually worked on the exact bid for that famous book. And he told me precisely: that super amazing cookbook that I truly loved, which at the time retailed for $50 and had won every award…

But that's the cost of just getting the books to your warehouse. There's the additional labor cost of unpacking them and individually shipping them, which is probably more than $3.83/book.

And shelf space costs a lot more than server space and bandwidth.

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#28
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to take this guy seriously. He used to post pretty vile stuff online on a racist message board and had an entire Wikipedia article dedicated to his sockpuppeting.

Idk about him, and that article is very well written and insightful, with no traces of racism.

I've never heard of him espousing detrimental views FWIW. He had a public spat with Google after he left though: https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-fired-fro... There used to be a lot more blog articles about it (on that same blog I believe), but now that it's been a number of years (maybe even 10 by now?) I think they've slowly started disappearing.

Edit: here's the explanation on why you can't find a lot of his earlier material online: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/44bmmq/why_agi...

Re: Why We Are Self-Publishing the Aviary Cookbook

#30

I'm in the process of writing a book about FinTech industry holistically and I'm interested to know if someone has any tip of publishing business-technology book. My target readers are students, professionals either in tech or finance, entrepreneurs and investors. If anyone could share a bit more about the cost of self publishing would be great. For some reason, I'm more worried about the copy editing at this point t…

To add to the comment form nickkokonas, I'd also add that there is a distinction between editing/tech review and copy-editing. They can be done by the same person, especially if you've had at least some serious read-throughs by people you trust who are familiar with the field.

But you basically need a content review and a review for flow/grammar/spelling/etc.

I've self-published but my objective has never been to make money. It's about supporting other activities that I get paid for. (Which is the situation with a lot of the lighterweight O'Reilly and "Dummies Guides" types of things these days.)

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