Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 198 posts

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#91

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #67
holydude wrote: post #31

The scary part is china's protectionism. Small nations and businesses have so little possibilities to operate in china without getting robbed of IP or being outcompeted by state supported domestic ventures. I fear the future of China being stronger superpower than the USA.

Protectionism has never made a country strong.

This is demonstrably false, and actually the opposite of most countries that have successfully developed. I was searching for "South Korea protectionism history" to find articles for a great example (as SK practiced heavily protectionist policies in the immediate post-war decades), and this came up: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/sep/09/eu.glo...

Protectionism can be very successful for countries with underdeveloped economies.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#92

Post by thablackbull »

mazerackham wrote: post #87
kcanini wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has shown that they are very adept at copying American high-tech innovation. * Facebook: WeChat/Weibo * Google: Baidu * Apple: already being made in China, clones everywhere * Amazon: Alibaba

Actually Facebook has shamelessly copy-catted WeChat continuously over the last 2 years

We prefer to use the term, seeking inspiration as opposed to copying, over here =P

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#93

Post by snakeanus »

throwaway053 wrote: post #88
Animats wrote: post #21

The "Belt and Road" scheme is well known. The first container freight train from Yiwu, China to Barking, England, arrived January 15, 2017. Coast to coast travel time: two weeks.[1] Conveniently, China uses a 4' 8.5" track gauge, unlike Russian metric gauge, so they can move freight cars all the way without a gauge change. Soon, of course, heavier rails, longer trains, faster trains, more trains, better gradients, mo…

the "belt and road" is a nothing burger. "The Chinese government had hoped to assemble a weightier guest list to Mr Xi’s premier international forum, which is occurring just months before he formally begins a second five-year term in office. But many heads of state and government, especially from G7 and OECD nations, were reluctant to participate in what they thought might be little more than a propaganda coup for Ch…

Sadly this article seems to be locked behind a paywall.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#94

Post by thablackbull »

propman wrote: post #86
cylinder wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you know, Hollywood has never pushed American propaganda before...

Umm I don't think you are getting the fundamental logic here. America has pushed propaganda, but they also allow movies that make America look bad: botched CIA missions true or not, slavery, different look at revered historical figures, greedy American leaders/FBI/CIA or whatever. They don't purposefully stop what makes America look bad. China does, there is a huge difference in that. Secondly, the government itself…

What you're witnessing is manufactured consent[1]. There is no need for the crude methods of propaganda here because it's not even necessary. Compare that with China; people there are fully conscious of government propaganda. From the SMH article, they expected the west to be a land of freedom and democratization of ideas, but what they end up finding is that it more or less is the same thing.

> [2] "A lot of them are PRC students who migrated to Australia or come here to study. I think they are quite ambivalent about Australia, and China. Culturally and emotionally they still identify with China, but they don't like the corruption, pollution, propaganda or the regime. So they migrate here and they have some perception about this country, that it's beautiful, clean, prosperous, there is press freedom and the media is objective, not like the propaganda in China. "Here they expect the media to do a lot better than the media they're used to back there. When they realise that the media here is just as one-track mind about these things as the Chinese side but exactly the opposite, they find it really hard to reconcile with what they're experiencing."

Personally, I find that even more worrying. People here seem to think they are free-thinkers not subject to propaganda when really, the more "oppressed" people have way more understanding of what's going on in the world.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

[2] http://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-media-a-threat-to-soc...

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#95

Post by FooBarWidget »

kcanini wrote: post #54
nostromo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American technology companies don't rely on IP restrictions as much as they used to. You couldn't copy Facebook, Google, Apple, or Amazon's products and services effectively on a global scale even if they had no IP restrictions. And China is the second largest market for American movies, which absolutely require IP law to function. So I think this concern is overstated.

China has shown that they are very adept at copying American high-tech innovation. * Facebook: WeChat/Weibo * Google: Baidu * Apple: already being made in China, clones everywhere * Amazon: Alibaba

Some Chinese products are better, but PLEASE remove Baidu from that list. Baidu has been ridiculous for the past few years: I can't find anything on Baidu, pretty much the entire first page is full of irrelevant ads; all my Chinese friends are complaining about that too.

I use Baidu Maps every time I visit China. Heavily disappointed, it comes nowhere near Google Maps's quality.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#98

Post by yohui »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #63
tunesmith wrote: post #7

Isn't this what the failed TPP trade deal was supposed to serve as a counter to?

I think that about 20% of TPP did, as you said, deal with real trade, but 80% dealt with treaties that would override individual nations' laws and use private 'courts' for disputes.

In terms of public perception, perhaps. In reality? The parent comment is correct: we let ourselves pick out the parts we didn't like, with a dash of knee-jerk opposition to "secrecy" on top, and completely ignored the broader context (trade, security, and international politics).

The good news is, against all odds, it looks like the other TPP members might forge ahead anyway even without the US (for now): https://www.google.com/amp/asia.nikkei.com/amp/Politics-Econ...

It wasn't concern for little countries or even anti-IP sentiment that killed the TPP in the US, though that provided useful cover, but nativism as embodied by Trump.

New Zealand, one of those little countries, just ratified the TPP a few days ago to "send a message" in support of free trade despite the US withdrawal:http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/330574/nz-govt-ratif...

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#99

Post by awinter-py »

Calling this a new marshall plan is a powerful analogy.

Not sure I agree or disagree. The marshall plan was focused on gaining allies, so in theory it was more economically selfless than this. But even if not perfect the comparison makes you zoom out and take the long view.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#100

Post by propman »

thablackbull wrote: post #94
propman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm I don't think you are getting the fundamental logic here. America has pushed propaganda, but they also allow movies that make America look bad: botched CIA missions true or not, slavery, different look at revered historical figures, greedy American leaders/FBI/CIA or whatever. They don't purposefully stop what makes America look bad. China does, there is a huge difference in that. Secondly, the government itself…

What you're witnessing is manufactured consent[1]. There is no need for the crude methods of propaganda here because it's not even necessary. Compare that with China; people there are fully conscious of government propaganda. From the SMH article, they expected the west to be a land of freedom and democratization of ideas, but what they end up finding is that it more or less is the same thing. > [2] "A lot of them ar…

But in the West the media is not state run. The Chinese government decides what to run and clearly that is propaganda. In America the media is controlled by 2 political parties and they are either pro or anti government. The media in the West can run any content they wish and it is up to the free market to determine if they can survive. You can listen to whatever viewpoint or angle. CNN, Fox, Huffpo, Brietbart everyone is telling you different angles it is up to you to decide. This unbiased media you are referring to is an unachievable utopia. The Western system is far superior to state run propaganda and is the best system we can realistically have. If there were a better system, through the free market it will replace the old.
Post reply on HN