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Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

nytimes.com

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Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#71

Post by misingnoglic »

Honestly, this isn't a big issue for two reasons:

1. The Google stuff works. I would have loved for that kind of organization and management in my elementary school classes. Google docs is also great and means I don't have to beg my not so wealthy parents for a Microsoft word license (or learn in the 4th grade how to pirate it).

2. Let's not kid ourselves, everyone is going to make a Google account anyway. As long as the school accounts aren't used in collecting ad data (which they're not) this is a non issue.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#72

Post by skybrian »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about this. Personally, working as a contractor at Google was one of the interesting jobs I have had and I generally like Google. That said, after reading Dave Eggers' excellent book "The Circle" last year and having watched the movie yesterday, I was reminded of the dangers (even if fictional in the case of the book) of a monopoly controlling knowledge. The book/movie is obviously about Google…

For a historical perspective on the privacy issue, I found this book review interesting.

"So from the beginning, kings had an incentive to make the country 'legible' – that is, so organized and well-indexed that it was easy to know everything about everyone and collect/double-check taxes. Also from the beginning, nobles had an incentive to frustrate the kings so that they wouldn’t be out of a job. And commoners, who figured that anything which made it easier for the State to tax them and interfere in their affairs was bad news, usually resisted too."

So this resistance to being indexed has very deep roots! But I think we're way past that point now. Being "undocumented" makes it very hard to participate in society.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/03/16/book-review-seeing-like...

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#73

Post by [deleted] »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about this. Personally, working as a contractor at Google was one of the interesting jobs I have had and I generally like Google. That said, after reading Dave Eggers' excellent book "The Circle" last year and having watched the movie yesterday, I was reminded of the dangers (even if fictional in the case of the book) of a monopoly controlling knowledge. The book/movie is obviously about Google…

[deleted]

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#74

Post by groot451 »

duality wrote: post #70
thrillerson wrote: post #54

Chromebooks are much better than iPads for this kind of a task for sure, but I wouldn't want everything my child wrote and looked up throughout his development sent to a major advertising corp. This data should still be maintained by the school or by a company the school partners with with a zero internal or external sharing policy.

It seems to be maintained by a company the schools partner with with a zero internal or external sharing policy: From [Common questions about Classroom]( https://support.google.com/edu/classroom/answer/6025224?hl=e... ) Does Classroom contain ads? No. Like all G Suite for Education services, Classroom contains no ads and never uses your content or student data for advertising purposes. Learn more about [privacy and s…

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/google-deceptively-tracks...

IMHO google is constrained by laws protecting minors here, not because the Google nor even the schools care that much.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#75

Post by skybrian »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #65
mark_l_watson wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about this. Personally, working as a contractor at Google was one of the interesting jobs I have had and I generally like Google. That said, after reading Dave Eggers' excellent book "The Circle" last year and having watched the movie yesterday, I was reminded of the dangers (even if fictional in the case of the book) of a monopoly controlling knowledge. The book/movie is obviously about Google…

I also think it is kinda backwards that a for-profit corporation is subsidizing public education. This is a symptom of a broken system and instead of praising Google we should fix what is broken about the system. This also creates an interesting precedent if it sticks. Are parents going to beg Google to prop up their schools now?

Are Chromebooks subsidized? Maybe they're just cheaper.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#76

Post by dkarapetyan »

skybrian wrote: post #75
dkarapetyan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it is kinda backwards that a for-profit corporation is subsidizing public education. This is a symptom of a broken system and instead of praising Google we should fix what is broken about the system. This also creates an interesting precedent if it sticks. Are parents going to beg Google to prop up their schools now?

Are Chromebooks subsidized? Maybe they're just cheaper.

Pretty sure they're subsidized. Plenty of products given to educators are subsidized. That in and of itself is not bad or wrong. It's when we put things in the proper context and ask how exactly does Google benefit from this that things take a wrong turn. I don't see how any positive spin for why Google is doing this actually holds up.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#77

Post by killjoywashere »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #65
mark_l_watson wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about this. Personally, working as a contractor at Google was one of the interesting jobs I have had and I generally like Google. That said, after reading Dave Eggers' excellent book "The Circle" last year and having watched the movie yesterday, I was reminded of the dangers (even if fictional in the case of the book) of a monopoly controlling knowledge. The book/movie is obviously about Google…

I also think it is kinda backwards that a for-profit corporation is subsidizing public education. This is a symptom of a broken system and instead of praising Google we should fix what is broken about the system. This also creates an interesting precedent if it sticks. Are parents going to beg Google to prop up their schools now?

This should be a tell that education has value and the government is underinvesting.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#78

Post by WalterBright »

xnzakg wrote: post #31
WalterBright wrote: post #20

> he said: “I cannot answer for them what they are going to do with the quadratic equation. I don’t know why they are learning it.” He added, “And I don’t know why they can’t ask Google for the answer if the answer is right there.” Wow. Back when I worked for Boeing on the 757 design, there were engineers that were "formula pluggers" who pulled formulas out of manuals and used them. Then there were engineers who unde…

You're talking about engineers. Of course you need to understand some formulas if you're going to be an engineer. But for most of the people who aren't going to do that, they're useless.

Teaching formula plugging is about as useless as teaching history as dates and names.

Teaching how to derive the formula, why it works, etc., is very useful (even if one never needs to use it in post school life).

Googling for answers is not learning. It's like lifting weights with a forklift is not exercising.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#79

Post by WalterBright »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #68
WalterBright wrote: post #20

> he said: “I cannot answer for them what they are going to do with the quadratic equation. I don’t know why they are learning it.” He added, “And I don’t know why they can’t ask Google for the answer if the answer is right there.” Wow. Back when I worked for Boeing on the 757 design, there were engineers that were "formula pluggers" who pulled formulas out of manuals and used them. Then there were engineers who unde…

It is not in Google's best interest to have people that think independently of Google. The more woven Google is into the daily fabric of our lives the more profitable it becomes. I don't understand why more alarm bells aren't ringing. A for-profit corporation should not be subsidizing public education. They're not a non-profit. Their motives are always going to be at odds with creating a free-thinking populace. Googl…

Governments have their agendas in public schools other than free thinking, as well.

Re: Google is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps

#80

Post by gravypod »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9

"Free" apps. The only cost is the student's privacy. Gotta get them sucking at the Google teat early, and in to their database as soon as possible.

Well of course! How else will you manage to look at historical trends of your consumers? Gotta start sucking the cash out of the little ones from an early age.

I wish someone from the GNU/Linux crowd could make a chromebook-like software set that was really Free software.

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