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Guaranteed Minimum What?

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Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#401

Post by taway_1212 »

douche wrote: post #397
taway_1212 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've quit my remote job for in-office for this very reason. The hell of constant noise and having to warm up seat for 8 hours (even when I can realistically concentrate on code for maybe 4-6) is better than the hell of sitting at home alone coding for months. I think... (I'm starting the in-office job in a couple weeks).

The in-office hell is worse. Hell is other people.

The problem is, in remote job there are still other people, but they are in remote time zones and your bandwidth to them is frustratingly limited (most communications occur via chat, sometimes a hangout). It does not make the communication less important though - for example, some code nazi on your team will post lots of remarks to your patches in code review and now, instead of going to him and explaining your perspective, you need to painstakingly type it into boxes on Github... My experience was that the review process with such people (when done remotely) takes at least as many calendar days as the work itself. Granted, it's not all useless pedantism - they often want me to rewrite the code so that it's more similar to the rest of the codebase (we were doing Scala+Play, where you often have many ways to approach a problem) - but it would be so much less painful to go over it in person.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#402

Post by Turing_Machine »

dredmorbius wrote: post #345
Turing_Machine wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person behind the counter in a movie theater is usually a high school aged teen. Their opinions as to what constitutes a good movie are almost certainly wildly at variance with my own. That said, Yelp-type reviews aren't much better. About the best you can do is find a professional movie or restaurant reviewer whose opinions match yours and go with that.

I'd applied a specific conditional to my response. You're disregarding it. That doesn't address the case where the condition is satisfied.

You mean this?

"If a consideration in employing someone at the ticket counter is that they have well-founded opinions or suggestions to offer on films, then, by way of their expert status, you've cause to believe them."

I'm disregarding it because it's observably not true.

People are employed at theatre ticket offices because they are teens who are willing to work nights and weekends for minimum wage, not because they're film experts.

Expecting a ticket booth employee to be Roger Ebert is about as reasonable as expecting a Radio Shack employee to be a qualified electrical engineer.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#403

Post by fooza »

freshhawk wrote: post #338
ebiester wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50% of the population have an IQ below 100. 16ish percent have an IQ below 85. What are they going to do? We've already essentially phased out the useful work that people under IQ 70 can do. It's likely that it's creeped up to 75 or 80, even. As these are automated, let's creep it up to 90. It also takes out those who are poor and have no branch on which to gain experience for their first job. If we have eliminated t…

> What are these newly opened industries that will work with these people? As far as I can tell, it's "magic future ones" and the evidence for these statements is "because I hope that's what happens".

Food delivery service for one. Startups like uber eats and foodora give jobs to people who like to ride fast on bikes, bike deliveries existed before in major cities but not like this.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#404

Post by the_gastropod »

moxious wrote: post #349
the_gastropod wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanations I've heard effectively make the assertion that a country's land is collectively owned by its citizens. Its citizens can then charge rent (via taxation) to individuals or corporations using the land. UBI is the distribution of that rent.

In what way is the land collectively owned? The business would show a deed and prove they already own the land. Also, if I already own a house privately, I would pay the commons rent on what I already own? This seems to pervert the notion of ownership.

In the US (and most countries), land "ownership" is already a perverted notion. You often must pay personal property tax on the land you "own", the government, through eminent domain, can take the land you "own", etc.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#405

Post by coldtea »

jfoutz wrote: post #284
brownbat wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are periods that are artistically more fruitful and interesting that others, Sure, but the claim was just that there have always been bad movies. Here's a test: If there's some year you know of where bad movies were exceptionally rare, let us know. Then we'll see if we can provide counterexamples.

My pick for year is 1878. I'd love to see your examples. But really, how do you quantify good? Taste is subjective. The original Transformers move is a great example. I didn't like it. but i believe 14 year old me would have absolutely loved it. It's similar to the statistics about Word users only use 5% of the functionality of Word. But everybody uses a different 5%. I guess if you want to go by money, i'm going to…

>But really, how do you quantify good? Taste is subjective.

That's why I don't use random individual tastes as a measure, but informed (from decades of studying movies and moviemaking) and argued critiques (by movie critics, other directors, and everyone with similar expertise).

The same way most will agree that Citizen Kane is a great movie, even if 16 year old John, from Buffalo, Indiana finds it "boring and gay".

That said, I also don't believe that just because something is fuzzy (like "what's a good work of art") and can't be defined with numerical precision, it's also impossible to reason about at all. So, in that sense, I'm satisfied with a general "expert consensus" on whether a movie's great and don't expect to have some absolute quantification of that.

So, to agree with my opinion, one should probably also be OK with fuzzy, not totally quantified inquiries (incidentally the inverse is something the climate deniers use for their advantage: they say that because the scientific community can explicitly give a specific number on the impact of human activity on the climate, it is bogus: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/157823678756/tucker-carlson-ind... ).

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#406

Post by freshhawk »

fooza wrote: post #403
freshhawk wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are these newly opened industries that will work with these people? As far as I can tell, it's "magic future ones" and the evidence for these statements is "because I hope that's what happens".

Food delivery service for one. Startups like uber eats and foodora give jobs to people who like to ride fast on bikes, bike deliveries existed before in major cities but not like this.

So a short term sharecropping job that barely pays you enough to survive with no path for advancement and you soon get replaced by driverless cars?

If that really is the best answer then it's time to invest in guillotine manufacturers.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#407

Post by Chris2048 »

ciconia wrote: post #394
cbanek wrote: post #4

> Humans are agressively being eliminated from as many business models as possible. Well that's true, where they don't add value. What's the difference between the case of getting movie tickets and your waiter at a fancy restaurant? One of them is practically a useless annoyance, and the other one is part of the experience. Someone in a movie box isn't going to tell you about the movie, or have a conversation about i…

> Honestly, do we really like interacting with the people with minimum wage jobs? Not really. It's sad how this socially destructive mindset has washed first over the US and then over the rest of the globe. The money religion has won. I'm lucky to live in the French countryside, where solidarity is still a guiding principle for social interaction. The cinema in the closest town is run by a not-for-profit organisation…

Are the people volunteering to ryn the cinema also desperate immigrants struggling with their paychecks?

If not, you're wondering why the starving don't eat cake.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#408

Post by mercer »

ciconia wrote: post #394
cbanek wrote: post #4

> Humans are agressively being eliminated from as many business models as possible. Well that's true, where they don't add value. What's the difference between the case of getting movie tickets and your waiter at a fancy restaurant? One of them is practically a useless annoyance, and the other one is part of the experience. Someone in a movie box isn't going to tell you about the movie, or have a conversation about i…

> Honestly, do we really like interacting with the people with minimum wage jobs? Not really. It's sad how this socially destructive mindset has washed first over the US and then over the rest of the globe. The money religion has won. I'm lucky to live in the French countryside, where solidarity is still a guiding principle for social interaction. The cinema in the closest town is run by a not-for-profit organisation…

May I ask where in the countryside (approximately), or more importantly how you got there and also got here? I'm seriously looking into leaving the city life for the first time ever, and I'm curious to hear what others did and what their experience was.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#409

Post by Eerie »

yeslibertarian wrote: post #64

yeah of course, I'm all for a guaranteed minimum income. I guess you are going to do a kickstarter right? I hope you are not proposing to forcefully steal my money through taxes.

I'd like to see you being forced not to use anything that was payed for by taxes, since you hate them so much. Like water, electricity and roads.

Re: Guaranteed Minimum What?

#410

Post by dllthomas »

danbruc wrote: post #386
dllthomas wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless technology and automation is advanced enough to provide goods and services for basics needs without requiring any labor at all, the scheme will fail in the worst case, i.e. everyone decides to stop working. I mean, of course the scheme will fail if everyone stops working. But if not enough people are working to make enough stuff to satisfy demand, you'll see inflation, the BI will fall below someone's comfor…

If you understand it this way, then why wouldn't my original example be sufficient? The incentive structure might be really bad, but once you start starving you should certainly consider working again. Actually it seems almost everything would be workable in this way. Unless you structure a system in a way that it is simply unable to produce the required goods and services or makes access to them impossible for at le…

> once you start starving you should certainly consider working again

Free-rider problem, and the black (or gray) market.

If all the value I capture from working is one/population of the value I produce, there are probably other things I can do (in an environment with a population bigger than "really small village") that will do substantially more to improve my circumstances, whether legal or not (and some things are bound to be legal - consider a kind of analog of the "man who marries his housekeeper" objection to GDP). And when people are desperate, they are more likely to focus on the things that will most improve their circumstance (especially in the shortest term).

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