Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 150 posts

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#141

Post by z0r »

verelo wrote: post #126
afuchs wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, the average salary for a software engineer, in Toronto, is close to $71,000 CAD/year. Taking into account the current CAD/USD exchange rate, brings it to approximately $52,000 USD/year. Each country has different costs, taxes and otherwise, for both employees and employers. The effects of those costs have not been included with those figures.

Most my friends in SF pay between $2.5-4k USD (3.4k-5.46k CAD) per month for their apartments [tell me if i'm wrong?]. I personally rent out two 1BR upper-scale apartments in downtown Toronto [one loft space for $1.9k CAD ($1.39k USD) and the other a 1BR+Den for $2.275k CAD ($1.66k USD)]. When it comes to lifestyle, money generally goes way further in Toronto than it does in SF; you're getting paid less for a reason.…

As a Torontonian transplant living in NYC: the rent is higher, but the same or smaller % of a much larger figure can still get you ahead by _quite_ a bit. You are simply wrong about the cost of living explaining the salary difference. It is very, very, very good to be working here and not in Toronto.

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#142

Post by parasubvert »

eigenvector wrote: post #46
parasubvert wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/most/some I was an expat in the US for many years, the story was the same in the mid-90s. Many try it, some stay, some come back. I still work for a US company but moved back. The current political climate has a big impact on encouraging people to stay in Canada, especially with NAFTA and the H1B programs hanging by a thread. Imagine thousands of Canadians with TN status getting told they need to move back immediat…

I know Google Waterloo has some actual permanent engineering teams but Microsoft and Amazon Canada seem to be strictly L-1 visa farms. The political climate is much talked about but if anything the rate of brain drain has increased as more and more SV companies make an effort to recruit in Toronto. In the early 2000s the subset of US companies that recruited at all in Canada did it strictly at UW. Now all the majors…

L-1 farm is entirely too cynical, most hires I know at AWS or Google Toronto have zero interest in leaving Canada. At Pivotal we have a number of US people doing transfers INTO Canada lately.

This is not to say transfers south are not done... but it's not the primary purpose of having a Canadian presence.

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#143

Post by hourislate »

patrick_99 wrote: post #128
afuchs wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, the average salary for a software engineer, in Toronto, is close to $71,000 CAD/year. Taking into account the current CAD/USD exchange rate, brings it to approximately $52,000 USD/year. Each country has different costs, taxes and otherwise, for both employees and employers. The effects of those costs have not been included with those figures.

I'm from Toronto, good senior engineers that aren't working in a sweat shop make $100k CAD or more, you can rent a nice apartment downtown for $2k per month.

100k in Toronto is 63k USD. How much of that do you get to keep after taxes? The H1B folks working in my office from India earn around 65k USD.

63k USD/100k CAD for a good senior engineer is a very poor salary in the US. Typically they make 2-3 times that in TX.

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#144

Post by verelo »

z0r wrote: post #141
verelo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most my friends in SF pay between $2.5-4k USD (3.4k-5.46k CAD) per month for their apartments [tell me if i'm wrong?]. I personally rent out two 1BR upper-scale apartments in downtown Toronto [one loft space for $1.9k CAD ($1.39k USD) and the other a 1BR+Den for $2.275k CAD ($1.66k USD)]. When it comes to lifestyle, money generally goes way further in Toronto than it does in SF; you're getting paid less for a reason.…

As a Torontonian transplant living in NYC: the rent is higher, but the same or smaller % of a much larger figure can still get you ahead by _quite_ a bit. You are simply wrong about the cost of living explaining the salary difference. It is very, very, very good to be working here and not in Toronto.

New York certainly Trumps (thought this needed some comic relief) Toronto in many ways, but I am guessing you're probably making a claim based on a salary that I suspect isn't as common as you would like it to be. People I previously worked with who did the exact same thing regularly talk about how expensive it is and that they are struggling to get by. I've had the same option on the table and despite my disinterest living in the US right now, I've never been able to make the math work. Taxes are not that low, especially when you add back healthcare, and it's so expensive to live the same quality of life that I might be able to short term improve my cash flow, but if I sacrifice I can also do that here?!

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#145

Post by 52-6F-62 »

patrick_99 wrote: post #128
afuchs wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, the average salary for a software engineer, in Toronto, is close to $71,000 CAD/year. Taking into account the current CAD/USD exchange rate, brings it to approximately $52,000 USD/year. Each country has different costs, taxes and otherwise, for both employees and employers. The effects of those costs have not been included with those figures.

I'm from Toronto, good senior engineers that aren't working in a sweat shop make $100k CAD or more, you can rent a nice apartment downtown for $2k per month.

I would say, maybe it's because I'm working in a sweatshop then, but I make barely over half of that in a mid-level/senior dev position in operations in a rather large digital media company. I've heard stories of positions that offer more but I don't think they're as plentiful as its made out to be... (frankly they outsource a lot of dev work and in spite of the larger trend in digital media, want to stay far away from much in-house dev).

maybe I should just be looking for new work.

There's also the emotional expense involved, but that's everywhere. Can't say I'd be willing to go in for $100k CAD doing DB or web work at say X-Syngery Unicorp Inc who might supply toilet paper dispensers to all junior-level and public restrooms in Suchacorp's east tower.

That one's on me, though.

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#146

Post by 52-6F-62 »

verelo wrote: post #104
pm90 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand this but if Software Engineers can't afford to live in the city, then ... who can? Serious question.

It's not that they cannot, it is that they do not want to. Seriously, any software dev saying they "cannot live" on their salary is simply out of touch with the rest of the world. Not to say they should take a below market salary, but comparing a hyper-crazy salary of SF to Toronto is unreasonable.

My immediate reaction was to want to say this is a little harsh, but it's actually fair.

I don't suffer. I share a 1 bed apartment with my girlfriend. Between the two of us I'd say we pull in ~$100k. Our rent is $1650 and we rent our parking space for $150. These days, it looks like a steal. I make rent, eat healthy, can afford transit and clothing and the odd night out, but doing all of that and saving any money is a good stretch right now.

But there are complications. We paid even less for a 2 bed condo we rented and were happy as hell, but condos have owners and I've experienced them visiting to have a look at the place they bought but never visited and decide to move in and kindly ask us to leave (with notice). Because of the housing market here, rents increase year-over-year by a not insignificant margin. To find a new 1bed downtown that isn't in a basement we're looking at $2k now. Next year it may be more if the bubble can't be curbed.

My salary doesn't go up at that margin. I'm also wearing a heap of student loans that are held by a bank, with a small share in OSAP (Ontario-Canada Student Loans). The bank treats student loans differently than the government, where there is no amity or relief on offer. Had to take this on to get into school because during the Harper years belts tightened and I fell into the narrow margin of my father made enough money to not warrant OSAP considering me at-need, but nowhere near enough to help me through any of the expense of higher education. I'm from a very rural area, so there were no local options.

TL;DR: much of my background of circumstance will better explain what I said, and might make me seem a little less crass and out of touch as you put it. In a vacuum, I agree. I have never lived in a vacuum, it's been a long road to where I am and longer to get where I want to go.

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#147

Post by 52-6F-62 »

dghughes wrote: post #107
52-6F-62 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to try and explain this to my girlfriend and her visiting sister last night. They're from Victoria and Vancouver and want us to move there. I can barely afford to live in Toronto on my salary, never mind Vancouver and the cost of moving across the country. To my knowledge -- in spite of the higher cost of living -- Vancouver-based software professionals don't make any more than they do here. That and most peopl…

Come to the Maritimes we're cheap!

I've always meant to visit! I had family out there in Halifax and Newfoundland, but all have moved back this way to Ontario.

Re: Alphabet’s Sidewalk Labs Eyes Toronto for Its Digital City

#150

Post by mthoms »

hourislate wrote: post #143
patrick_99 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Toronto, good senior engineers that aren't working in a sweat shop make $100k CAD or more, you can rent a nice apartment downtown for $2k per month.

100k in Toronto is 63k USD. How much of that do you get to keep after taxes? The H1B folks working in my office from India earn around 65k USD. 63k USD/100k CAD for a good senior engineer is a very poor salary in the US. Typically they make 2-3 times that in TX.

Actually C$100k is (roughly) US$73k
Post reply on HN