Are there any studies on how long engineers take to recover from burnout? 6 months sounds about right from what I've heard anecdotally.
I suspect there's considerable variance.
Recovering from Burnout and Depression
201–210 of 266 posts
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
That last sentence. Seriously?
I think today is my bad wordsmith day. I was so detached from feeling reality, I felt jealous when I saw scavengers in Nigeria finding 'treasure' in the junk yard that they can fix and sell in the market. And when I was in a not so affluent area at one time, and guys in rags gathered around a trolley were chatting away happily. And when a shopkeeper of a small booth looked so relaxed, watching the world go by with hi…
I think the main point to focus on is not the relative condition of liveliness, but the mechanism of its generation - which is to have and engage with difficult life problems, struggling against them each day, even while knowing that there's some absurdity to it(because the premises are so often arbitrary).
In the popular context this always maps onto basic survival since it's very relatable and immediate: but for a person in a slightly more privileged state the problem is one of picking the thing to struggle with, because it's possible to walk away from so much of it, find a distraction and squander one more day. If walking away from everything were really the answer, suicide would be success, and we are disinclined to want to believe that. Neither does it work to try to engage with every problem you see as there are too many of those and you aren't going to be effective at all of them.
This motivates many of the conclusions of Stoic thought: the moderation, the development of awareness about one's sphere of control.
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#203I feel that this is a over simplified version of a much deeper problem and cannot be concluded based on the experience of the Author alone. There are many things that cause burnout and many different reasons that cause depression. In the case of author the Work did it but there are people in this world who get burnt out because of sickness of their loved ones or even because of ambition & their vision. Interestingly the word depression is not even mentioned in the article.
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#204I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. Why is it so hard to make yourself work? Probably because you actually should be doing something else with your life. If someone paid you money to kick a dog, you'd feel a strong urge to do something else. That's because you shouldn't kick dogs. But when we feel the same urge t…
Most your points resonate with me but in my experience a large part of it has to do with perspective.
I [believe] I'm in the latter stages of burnout and while very anxiety-inducing, it's been a great learning and worthwhile experience so far.
For context, I started coding when I was 13 (I'm 29), studied CS, and never had any job outside of software engineering – got started undercutting outsourcers on Elance as a teenager, making below minimum wage with my poor estimation skills.
I was 4+ years into working at a successful company, in a lucrative position, surrounded by interesting people. At first, my enthusiasm started waning and I became more distracted. Then followed a lack of fulfillment punctuated by shame; a shame that I wasn't appreciating my situation. Eventually, I was honest with myself (and my team) and decided to leave.
It was definitely scary to lose interest in one of my oldest passions, but it gave me the mind space for some valuable introspection. Over the last five months I've been moving around (about one city a month), pursuing other passions outside of software. Most recently, I decided to spend the summer living on a farm, with some part time contracting.
Through this process of stepping outside my usual sphere of influence, I've regained an excitement for technology and the meaningful impact it can have on peoples' lives. I've also become more aware of just how truly fortunate we are as engineers around Silicon Valley, when compared to the rest of the world; it's given me a new perspective.
So (as simplistic as it might sound) if you think you're experiencing burnout because your work is "meaningless", stop (budget, adjust your lifestyle, etc.) and try something else; you'll either start missing it and get reinvigorated, or you might find a better way to spend your time.
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#205My recovery included a regimented sleeping, eating, and exercise plan that I introduced in stages. If you have to pick just one to start with, it is a toss up between going to sleep at the same time every night or going for a walk every day. I also never work overtime anymore. Still not totally okay, but not completely burnt out anymore.
Can you expand on some of the details of your regimen? I'm having trouble getting myself to go to bed at a reasonable hour and I think it is strongly contributing to a growing sense of fatigue at work. Would be particularly interested in how you got started with it.
I had really bad sleep issues for years and what finally fixed it was not keeping my phone, laptop, or desktop anywhere near the bedroom. When I was younger I would fall asleep quite naturally no matter what I was doing or where. But now, even if I wasn't on them, having them near to hand would keep me up. They sort of sabotaged that in-between phase, just before you fall asleep.
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also identify with you. I struggled to find the venture that hits the "golden point", where it solves a genuine problem, doesn't disrupt to the point of messing up lives, is beautiful (by virtue of having an arty-farty personality) ... and all that plus maximum but entirely ethical profits. I think I found it: edtech. Edtech is a notoriously hard one to crack, and it's a long game. Fortunately I've always enjoyed w…
The unfortunate reality is that a lot of success boils down to IQ (and some other metrics of mental acuity,) which is mostly hereditary or imprinted, so that's depressing for a lot of people in education who started off wide-eyed and optimistic. Also, an efficient, nationwide online schooling system (CAVA in California as an example,) would be the end of something like 90% of the teachers in the country. Would that b…
Why wouldn't technology be able to magnify mental attributes, just as it magnifies our other attributes?
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is more true than many would like to admit. Maybe 'most work' as meaningless isn't the way I would phrase it, but I know many including myself that are often creatively and technically challenged, work an average number of hours, but feel the mental stress of burnout purely because of the guilt and resentment of spending so much time on the specific job function, itself. To put it a little more abstract…
This is one of my big problems with the idea of money being so separated from actual good these days. It also creates huge wealth gaps, and I have no idea what could be done to re-align it. Basically, I believe that the concept of money as it exists today is deeply broken and should be aligned with something which benefits humans vs something which is required in small to moderate quantities to not suffer yet which p…
It's a tricky problem. I guess to an extent government can tax wealth accumulation that doesn't do good and fund good stuff that doesn't make money but it's hard to judge/implement.
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think today is my bad wordsmith day. I was so detached from feeling reality, I felt jealous when I saw scavengers in Nigeria finding 'treasure' in the junk yard that they can fix and sell in the market. And when I was in a not so affluent area at one time, and guys in rags gathered around a trolley were chatting away happily. And when a shopkeeper of a small booth looked so relaxed, watching the world go by with hi…
Based on the topic of this thread, you can look at it in a different way. All humans need a challenge (or, at least, I've never met someone who is happy without some kind of challenge). A challenge for survival is, perhaps, the most noble kind. Literature (in all cultures) is filled with fantasies of the "Noble Savage". It is easy to connect meaning to that life and death struggle. In that context, if I compare a ric…
Indeed, challenge or more broadly sense of meaning, is likely more important than creature comforts. The ideal is sense of security (probably from money in modernity) as well as meaningful goals. As far as I can tell.
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
That last sentence. Seriously?
I think today is my bad wordsmith day. I was so detached from feeling reality, I felt jealous when I saw scavengers in Nigeria finding 'treasure' in the junk yard that they can fix and sell in the market. And when I was in a not so affluent area at one time, and guys in rags gathered around a trolley were chatting away happily. And when a shopkeeper of a small booth looked so relaxed, watching the world go by with hi…
[deleted]
Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression
#210I burned out three times in salaried jobs. Mostly due to chaotic leadership. Hard work isn't the problem. Chaos and bad leadership is the problem. Moved to contracting, and have been fine since.
I burned out for the last time, recently. That is, I'm not sure that I will recover from this one. I am exploring the idea of contracting, but currently I have some sort of PTSD, and I can't think of turning my computer on without physical anxiety. Sigh. Luckily, I saved enough to keep me going unemployed, for a few years. It's a shame, because I have some valuable skills and experiences and could make a huge impact on most products, and I still love the work.
While chaos and bad leadership were major factors, and meaninglessness was another factor (as mentioned above), so many things changed in the last decade to make root cause analysis difficult. It more feels like systematic rolling failures. Too much risk-taking, fading ethics and morals, decline in quality standards, increasing greed, too many chiefs, too many people jacked up on Adderall, general organizational confusion, more reaction and less planning, longer hours, too much unnecessary communication...
What amazes me is that all of these companies that I have burned out from made a lot of money! I joke now with friends (many who are driven to be entrepreneurs, of course) that even the most average people can now build 100M companies these days. Being able to talk well and know the right people get you most of the way there, and brute force will get you the rest of the way. There's just so much capital out there, it's nuts.