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Where have all the insects gone?

sciencemag.org

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Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#41

Post by appleiigs »

AlexandrB wrote: post #24
fivestar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it has much to do with homeowners and lawn care. If anything, it has to do with the thousands of square miles of cropland that gets sprayed for insects each year. Then again, you get outside any of the cities and the windshield gets bug splattered as always. Trillions upon trillions of insects versus humanity? I'd bet on the insects.

> Trillions upon trillions of insects versus humanity? I'd bet on the insects. Yup, we'll just be left with the insects that can adapt quickly - cockroaches, aphids, ants - and not the insects we need/want - bees, butterflies, etc.

Cockroaches, aphids, ants are still insects we need and want. Having the distinction between good and bad insects is part of the problem. Similar problem with the distinction with good plants (grass) and bad plants (weeds). More diversity is healthier.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#42

Post by jessaustin »

fivestar wrote: post #20
tcfunk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why more people don't use push reel lawnmowers. I've used one ever since I stopped living in apartments, and they are not that difficult to use. They are lighter-weight than their gas-powered cousins, and you don't have to fill it up with gas every damn time you mow. Also it doesn't make 9000dB of noise.

Because my entire summer of mowing can be done for 5 gallons of gasoline.

This doesn't really contradict the idea that for you to own and maintain a gasoline mower is a tremendous waste...

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#43

Post by VA3FXP »

ashark wrote: post #31
VA3FXP wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When will people stop with this hyperbole? The planet; as-in this rocky, water-world orbiting Sol, will exist for BILLIONS of years. The _life_ on this planet AS WE KNOW IT is dying, along with ourselves. That is a huge difference and one that needs to be repeated with as much clarity as possible. Will homo-sapiens still exist in 10,000 years? maybe. 100,000 years? doubtful. 1,000,000 years? nope. Will single-celled…

> The planet; as-in this rocky, water-world orbiting Sol, will exist for BILLIONS of years Well, to nitpick a bit, not billions, for the "water-world" part. A few hundred million. It'll likely be quite parched by the 1 billion mark. Large, complex life forms are expected to have a Really Bad Time starting in the 500-600 million year range and shortly (geologically speaking) be gone entirely, assuming no acute planet-…

Point taken and acknowledged. I was on a bit of a rant.

Question regarding the "loss" of the oceans:

Won't that turn the atmosphere into 'soup'?

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#44

Post by hasbot »

AlexandrB wrote: post #25
tcfunk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why more people don't use push reel lawnmowers. I've used one ever since I stopped living in apartments, and they are not that difficult to use. They are lighter-weight than their gas-powered cousins, and you don't have to fill it up with gas every damn time you mow. Also it doesn't make 9000dB of noise.

I use electric. Has most of the advantages of a push mower with the added benefit of easier cutting. Just have to watch for the cord.

The cordless mowers appear to be getting better and better. With my new yard full of beds, trees, and other obstacles, half the mowing time is time managing the cord. So, I'm buying a Ryobi battery operated 21" lawnmower.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#45

Post by rojobuffalo »

If you're not doing so already, please compost organic waste. For the average household, it's about one-third of your trash. If you want to step it up, you can collect compost from coffee shops, restaurants, and grocers. You can use all that mass to build a hugelkultur, which becomes an oasis for soil organisms, insects, and birds. It also gives you a fertile spot to grow some beautiful and/or edible plants.

https://terra.farm/wiki/The_many_benefits_of_hugelkultur

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#46

Post by jballanc »

dbmikus wrote: post #27
jballanc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The planet isn't dying. The planet is just a ball of rock running loops around the gravity well of the closest star. We are, however, in the midst of the sixth great extinction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction . The evidence for this is pretty dang convincing, even independent of things like global climate change, and it has been going on for quite a while now, starting with the disappearance of meg…

> each prior great extinction was accompanied by a replacement of the "dominant" species on the Earth. As the current reigning "dominant" species, this seems like something that might be very concerning to humans... Except this time we are the cause of the extinction. I think that's a pretty important difference.

I think the jury's still out on whether or not this is actually different from the past extinctions. Yes, there was an asteroid impact around the time the dinosaurs went extinct, but every year there's some new paper or some new bit of evidence that points to the possibility that the asteroid wasn't the only factor in the K-Pg extinction. It's quite possible that dinosaurs had some role in their own extinction as well.

What is different, in this case, is that in all past cases if the dominant species played a role in bringing about a mass extinction it was almost certainly an accident. We have the (possibly small) chance of potentially averting our own replacement as dominant species, if we're smart...

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#47

Post by je_bailey »

VA3FXP wrote: post #18
Daishiman wrote: post #13

So when will people stop minimizing that, literally, the planet is dying?

When will people stop with this hyperbole? The planet; as-in this rocky, water-world orbiting Sol, will exist for BILLIONS of years. The _life_ on this planet AS WE KNOW IT is dying, along with ourselves. That is a huge difference and one that needs to be repeated with as much clarity as possible. Will homo-sapiens still exist in 10,000 years? maybe. 100,000 years? doubtful. 1,000,000 years? nope. Will single-celled…

What bothers me more is that when people say "we're destroying the planet" or "the planet is dying" they are not sitting there thinking that the literal physical solid rock of the planet is somehow going to go to pieces and disappear.

What they are saying is that ecosystem which is on the planet is going to hell including the ability for said ecosystem to support life. Either all life, or more specifically the ability to support human life.

No one, no one, is thinking the literal planet is going to go boom.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#48

Post by marcosdumay »

jostmey wrote: post #28
fivestar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it has much to do with homeowners and lawn care. If anything, it has to do with the thousands of square miles of cropland that gets sprayed for insects each year. Then again, you get outside any of the cities and the windshield gets bug splattered as always. Trillions upon trillions of insects versus humanity? I'd bet on the insects.

This belief that nature has control over the planet is sadly mistaken. If humanity wanted to, it could nuke the planet eliminating all insect life. Humanity has invented things far beyond the reach of nature and far beyond what nature can cope with.

I suggest you take a look on what a big asteroid impact can do. (You can start on the one 65M years ago, it is a good example.)

We are on the path, but we still didn't create something that Nature couldn't outdo. And then there are those interstellar (e.g. supernovas) and pan-galactic (e.g. gamma ray bursts) killers...

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#49

Post by [deleted] »

VA3FXP wrote: post #18
Daishiman wrote: post #13

So when will people stop minimizing that, literally, the planet is dying?

When will people stop with this hyperbole? The planet; as-in this rocky, water-world orbiting Sol, will exist for BILLIONS of years. The _life_ on this planet AS WE KNOW IT is dying, along with ourselves. That is a huge difference and one that needs to be repeated with as much clarity as possible. Will homo-sapiens still exist in 10,000 years? maybe. 100,000 years? doubtful. 1,000,000 years? nope. Will single-celled…

[deleted]

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#50

Post by giardini »

Lots of speculation present in the article, which points out the need for some good science to determine whether we're facing an imminent insect population collapse or its "business as usual".

As for the cars...

More cars and more car miles this year than in yesteryear means fewer bugsplats per vehicle mile. I would assume that, once a vehicle has swept past a volume, the bug population in that volume is restored by a "random walk/fly" process that depends on the average number of insects per unit volume in the area surrounding the highways.

Also vehicles pass in clumps depending on traffic patterns and time of day, so a bug that might have splatted on your vehicle is instead swept up by a driver in front of you.

Over time, insect populations for flying insects near roadways may decline, given the death rate is higher there. OTOH that may vary depending on whether the species is attracted/repelled by light, heat, roadkill, fumes, etc.

As for the article...

The article said: "the Krefeld Entomological Society... in 2013 .. When they returned to one of their earliest trapping sites from 1989, the total mass of their catch had fallen by nearly 80%. "

Note the word "one" as in one of "100 nature reserves in western Europe". The article continues:

"Through more direct comparisons, the group—which had preserved thousands of samples over 3 decades—found dramatic declines across more than a dozen other sites."

So, perhaps 12 of 100 sites show a "dramatic decline". That's about 8% of sites, so what about the other 88 sites? Did numbers there go up, decline or what?

Like the article says, time for some good science. But NOT time for alarmism. The sky is not falling.

All-in-all, pretty anecdotal stuff that could also attract some fun modeling. But first maybe, let's get some good solid science.

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